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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Jul 9th 2013 new
(quote) Clair-6292 said: Then what are the PUSH reasons in Mexico?
The push factors in Mexico are probably poverty and lack of opportunity. People cannot afford to stay at the resorts where they work, for example. So, low wages, no opportunity to improve one's economic standing, a lack of social and economic mobility, a lack of a tax base to support community infrastructure and so on, cause people to want to leave for better pastures.

Jul 9th 2013 new
With all the oil in Mexico and all the money sent from family members in America, why is there a lack of money?
Jul 9th 2013 new
Well Clair, I don't think they have land is my guess to grow crops!

Farming is everybody's bread and butter;)

But, obviously they must have rich people with the beautiful resorts and they have cheep labor and no one has opportunity to prosper unless you inherit the businesses by families. Who knows, but we will be there soon:(
Jul 9th 2013 new
Well rethinking this Clair. We have enough oil in ND to last our lifetimes and then some. Why are WE so dependent on other countries' oil? I guess no one has the answer to that. Maybe we are all just too selfish and he who has the Gold Rules.
Jul 9th 2013 new
I don't think Mexico has a lack of money problem, I think there is a lack of opportunity problem.

Mexico has a market economy, and not a communist system. However, Mexico has less-developed checks and balances in its political system, and a higher tolerance for corruption. I'm not saying that Mexicans prefer corruption; I'm saying that it is very deeply rooted in how things get done. Most Mexicans would probably be better off if they could get rid of the corruption, and they probably want to, but it is very deeply rooted in just about everything. So, the wealthy control almost everything - the politicians, the courts, the police, the educational institutions, the transportation, everything.

If you are born poor, you will never be able to have enough money to send your kids to college so that they can lead a better life than you. Why? Because whatever you can save is not enough to "buy" the spots in those in educational institutions. So, there is no opportunity to escape one's situation of poverty as the jobs that require more education are out of reach for those who are not able to get the education.

In places where there is greater social mobility, there is some semblance of the merit system, and equality of opportunity. However, in places where the institutions are corrupt, the wealthy will never lose their influence, they will always be on top, and the poor will never have a chance to escape their poverty. Merit counts for diddly and social mobility is non-existent when decisions are made to the perpetual advantage of those who are able to pay to get the decisions that favour their position. So, people leave in order to seek out those places where they have the opportunity for social mobility.

As an aside, those places where there is greater opportunity for social mobility also have the rich and the poor, but they have a very large middle class. I'm not sure that the Mexican middle class is very significant at all, and it probably is not a very attainable lifestyle for the poor. Things are a bit different in countries where corruption is less of a problem.

Jul 10th 2013 new
(quote) Cathy-564420 said: Well rethinking this Clair. We have enough oil in ND to last our lifetimes and then some. Why are WE so dependent on other countries' oil? I guess no one has the answer to that. Maybe we are all just too selfish and he who has the Gold Rules.
Why are we so dependent? Simply because the political leaders for decades have enacted legislation to make us so. In the 70's Jimmy Carter established the Department of Energy to make us independent. THAT FAILED!

Look over the long history of the earth. The vast number of people that ever lived did so under tyranny. The American experiment started us on a different path. The Constitution was drafted by Godly men who knew true freedom was a gift from God! When the nation remained under God's patronage we prospered. In the late 1800's the Progressive ideology began to take over. Thid includes Arwinism and it's application in eugenics. Remove God from everything!

What happened to Israel when they abandoned God? They became slaves in Egypt, Babalon, and how many others. Profits were sent, Isael repented and God brought them home again.

Mary was and is our profit today. In her apparitions she warned us what would happen and what we could do to avoid it! From Farima to Akita Japan her message remains constant. rosary
Jul 10th 2013 new
(quote) Angela-374523 said: I don't think Mexico has a lack of money problem, I think there is a lack of opportunity problem.

Mexico has a market economy, and not a communist system. However, Mexico has less-developed checks and balances in its political system, and a higher tolerance for corruption. I'm not saying that Mexicans prefer corruption; I'm saying that it is very deeply rooted in how things get done. Most Mexicans would probably be better off if they could get rid of the corruption, and they probably want to, but it is very deeply rooted in just about everything. So, the wealthy control almost everything - the politicians, the courts, the police, the educational institutions, the transportation, everything.

If you are born poor, you will never be able to have enough money to send your kids to college so that they can lead a better life than you. Why? Because whatever you can save is not enough to "buy" the spots in those in educational institutions. So, there is no opportunity to escape one's situation of poverty as the jobs that require more education are out of reach for those who are not able to get the education.

In places where there is greater social mobility, there is some semblance of the merit system, and equality of opportunity. However, in places where the institutions are corrupt, the wealthy will never lose their influence, they will always be on top, and the poor will never have a chance to escape their poverty. Merit counts for diddly and social mobility is non-existent when decisions are made to the perpetual advantage of those who are able to pay to get the decisions that favour their position. So, people leave in order to seek out those places where they have the opportunity for social mobility.

As an aside, those places where there is greater opportunity for social mobility also have the rich and the poor, but they have a very large middle class. I'm not sure that the Mexican middle class is very significant at all, and it probably is not a very attainable lifestyle for the poor. Things are a bit different in countries where corruption is less of a problem.

Does Canada have a lot of illegal immigrants?
Jul 10th 2013 new
(quote) Clair-6292 said: Why are we so dependent?  

Clair, and those like-minded,

I know you want to talk about the other side of the fence so to speak, but as much as we may agree or disagree it is a completely ineffective approach for us to do so. It really is a waste of our time and it drains our energies. Besides, you are not knowledgeable enough nor have the authority to do it. Dont think I am dumping on you - I dont think any of us here really are. There is a government process (agencies) that is expected to do that sort of thing on behalf of the American people.

The fact that the authorities at this juncture deserve a failing grade is beside the point I am trying to make.

So, how do we fix something that is broken? I say take care of those that are breaking it and put in place those that know how to operate it right. Yes, every what, when, where has a who. At least it should.

How about you/and others so inclined focus first on that which is broken and within your/our reach to fix?

My suggestion is this:

1. Let us pray to be properly disposed first, then

2. Take a cool bottle of water (maybe a 12-pack, to give out) and go talk with some illegals at their gathering point in your locale. See if they really are illegals and be courteous, after all, our civilian authority has limitations.

3. Then, on an occasional morning on your way to work, or at some point of leisure, stop off at the same community pick-up point for illegals (all large cities have them) and observe and report the enabler(s) of the illegals to your local authority having jurisdiction so the enabler(s) can be documented for breaking the law. Again, leave the illegals alone.

Will you do it? Pleasantly surprise me and tell me you are already doing this!

4. When the local authority fails to act (and they will I am sure they have many excuses why their hands are tied get it in writing) then start writing citizen complaints to that authority for failure to effectively execute their duty. Tell them that if you get no response to your complaint within two weeks, you will then go to their superior. If nothing there, file a complaint with the agency. And so on. And then repeat and repeat and repeat, refining your process so that you take away all official excuses over time. Do it until you have lodged a complaint against as many supervisors as it takes, then call the media and turn over your written complaints to a reporter who deems it newsworthy, if necessary.

5. Write letters to the editor in the local paper, exercise your vote too!

See, if the enablers (employers - be it citizens with cash, or licensed entities - whoever) are held accountable and are made to pay or are shut down from doing crooked business, others will take notice and take corrective action.

Who will do this? Anyone?

Is it not doing more than feeling helpless? Just whining doesn't make us helpless. Among other things, just constant whining (not saying anyone is doing it) is another form of laziness. My dad would call it SLOTH... one of the seven cardinal sins...

See, I still believe that officials are public servants (at least they are still supposed to be and that makes the American people their masters) and are required to enforce the law. Its their duty to serve the common good and to follow the law. Hold them accountable. When they are derelict, make it known by way of Christian charity, yet still factually and succinctly. Its the publics right to know. And its the publics right to expect good results. Expect measurable results. If not there, then they need to be replaced by those who take the law and public service seriously.

Public servants who subvert the law, refuse to carry it out, or are just negligent need to find something they CAN handle. There seem to be plenty of folks around who can take their spot.

Oh, BTW, I am open to better suggestions and I absolutely refuse to listen to whining why the above wont work from those that HAVE NOT gone through the process.

For what it's worth, in my local jurisdiction, I can pretty much guarantee you that there are verrry few illegals working within my industry (electrical). Most just keep getting busted! Can you guess why?

So, as my son says: peace out! .... meaning "later man" :)

Jul 10th 2013 new
My apology for some missing hyphens, apostrophes' and quote marks above; something went different from what I thought I typed and what posted. But it still conveys the essence of what I had to say in regards to how we should handle immigration.

Employers and citizens should not hire illegals.
Those that do should suffer the consequences.
The immigration laws, for the large part are still in place.
Officials should enforce the law. Those that don't should be replaced.
Politicians and administrators who obfuscate and neutralize the laws should be voted out of office or be replaced with better appointments.

Not all illegals are here due to lack of economic opportunities, etc. We have to make it easier for Homeland Security to identify those. We are at war with certain radical elements!
Jul 10th 2013 new
Lastly, migration of peoples is by no means a new concept. I am a product of a legally set up process that worked the way it was intended. I immigrated (with family) as a child in 1969; I was 11. I didn't know a word of English then and now I speak without accent and have a college degree and a reasonably good and marketable career. I have benefited from it, and I also trust that this country and an employer is benefiting from it too.

Now if the good Lord would just help me recognize the woman He intends for me and does the same with her... in the meantime... back to the grind!!!
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