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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Aug 6th 2013 new
(quote) David-364112 said:
God did not create mankind in order to damn the greater number of them. His mercy is beyond our comprehension.
No, He didn't. Nor does God damn anyone to Hell -- we do it ourselves by rejecting Him and His will in favor of our own.

And while God doesn't want souls to go to Hell, He knows full well exactly which ones will end up there. He Himself warned us in Scripture: "Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!" (Matt. 7:13-14) The Blessed Virgin allowed the children at Fatima to see Hell and the massive number of souls falling there "like snowflakes".

The problem is not a lack of mercy on God's part, but an overabundance of rejection of that mercy on ours -- ironically, often at the very same time we distort the nature of His mercy attempting to convince ourselves and others there is nothing to fear. Would a merciful God submit the children of Fatima, St. Teresa of Avila, and other to the vision of the horrors of Hell if there were not a VERY good reason? So that they could use their experience to warn others of the very real danger.

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matt. 7:15)

Aug 6th 2013 new
(quote) Tom-112790 said: in the 70s some priests wore bell bottoms
And...????

Aug 6th 2013 new
Depending on the soil in which they were seeded, some left their vocation to pursue belle bottoms, some wrote sermons that were clangers while a few went on to nourish their flock with peals of wisdom which produced a cropa hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown?
Aug 7th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: And...????

they looked groovy
Aug 7th 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: The Church is not making any exceptions for those with annulments.

A decision of nullity says, in effect, that no marriage.existed in the first place.

Divorce is a secular legal thing and is not the same as an annulment.

Theoretically, the Church could grant an annulment without a divorce. It chooses not to do so because of the legal problems that arise from people living together in an apparent marriage. Those issues deal with property rights as well as the welfare of any children. Those issues are settled in the legal proceeding called divorce. And the Church wants to be sure that those issues are fully dealt with before it will even officially begin the investigation necessary to definitively state, to the best of fallible man's ability, a sacramental marriage did or did not exist.
I like the way you think
Aug 7th 2013 new
(quote) Maryjane-408997 said: It seems that you are of the opinion that Catholics have the exclusive on getting to heaven. Keep in mind, there are many worthy people in other religions who actually put some Catholics to shame.
Everyone who gets to heaven is Catholic. Maybe they weren't here on earth, but heaven is the Church Triumphant. A person's decision to choose Heaven and the Church is one and the same.
Aug 7th 2013 new
(quote) Tom-112790 said: in the 70s some priests wore bell bottoms
in the 70's I too wore bell bottoms, but I was not responsible for my dress choices, as my mother was still picking my clothes. The most memorable outfit was a red, white and blue plaid suit with a navy dress shirt. Bell bottoms and butterfly collars baby! wink laughing laughing
Aug 7th 2013 new
Hi Kenny- have not read all the posts, but basically...

I think that many fall into one of two traps. One side thinks the important thing is to have a relationship with God. The other thinks that we need to follow the rules. The most important thing is to have a relationship with Go d (we must love God & Neighbor, Mt 22:34-40) but if it's to be the right relationship we need to follow rules as well as we can. Jesus did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it. (Mt 5:17)

Here is the thing about the rules. there are many of them- far more than what we find in even the Old Testament Law and prophets, and it would seem that we could never master all of them. And there is truth there- we cannot master all in this life, but we can get pretty good, and becoming pretty good is simple. Desire to follow Christ and learn a new skill in following him every day.

I am convinced there are two reasons people go to hell. They do not want to be with God, or they want to be with God, but they want to lead the relationship. And I would guess that the second is by far the larger group...
Aug 8th 2013 new
(quote) Matt-61677 said: Hi Kenny- have not read all the posts, but basically...

I think that many fall into one of two traps. One side thinks the important thing is to have a relationship with God. The other thinks that we need to follow the rules. The most important thing is to have a relationship with Go d (we must love God & Neighbor, Mt 22:34-40) but if it's to be the right relationship we need to follow rules as well as we can. Jesus did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it. (Mt 5:17)

Here is the thing about the rules. there are many of them- far more than what we find in even the Old Testament Law and prophets, and it would seem that we could never master all of them. And there is truth there- we cannot master all in this life, but we can get pretty good, and becoming pretty good is simple. Desire to follow Christ and learn a new skill in following him every day.

I am convinced there are two reasons people go to hell. They do not want to be with God, or they want to be with God, but they want to lead the relationship. And I would guess that the second is by far the larger group...
I agree with the first of your two reasons people go to hell. The second reason you give makes no sense to me.If people want to lead the relationship(and still want to be with God)--they either get humbled in this life or in purgatory or both.
I think the hellbound want to go there and have no desire to be with God.
Aug 8th 2013 new
(quote) Tom-112790 said: I agree with the first of your two reasons people go to hell. The second reason you give makes no sense to me.If people want to lead the relationship(and still want to be with God)--they either get humbled in this life or in purgatory or both.
I think the hellbound want to go there and have no desire to be with God.
It depends on how you interpret "want to lead the relationship."

If Matt meant "want the relationship on their terms instead of God's", with the implication that there is a significant difference between their terms and God's, then very clearly this will lead to damnation if not repented before death

Saying we love God is not enough. "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him. He that loveth me not, keepeth not my words." (John 14:23-24)

"And a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able. But when the master of the house shall be gone in, and shall shut the door, you shall begin to stand without, and knock at the door, saying: Lord, open to us. And he answering, shall say to you: I know you not, whence you are.(Luke 13:23-25)

From the Haydock Commentary for verse 24:

Ver. 24. Shall seek, &c. Shall desire to be saved; but for want of taking sufficient pains, and not being thoroughly in earnest, shall not attain to it. (Challoner)

Our Lord answers here in the affirmative: viz. that the number of those who are saved, is very small, for a few only can enter by the narrow gate. Therefore does he say, according to St. Matthew, (Chap. vii.) Narrow is the way that leadeth to life, and few there are that enter therein. This does not contradict what is said in the 8th chapter of St. Matthew: That many shall come from the east, and sit down in the kingdom of God; for many indeed shall join the blessed company of the angels, but when considered with the number of the slain, they will appear but few. (St. Augustine, serm. xxxii. de Verb. Dei.)


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