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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Aug 23 new
6. But isnt Fatima just a private apparition no Catholic has to believe?

A: Far from it. The apparitions at Fatima were confirmed by a public miracle witnessed by 70,000 peoplethe Miracle of the Sun. Pope John Paul II himself declared at Fatima in 1982 that the Message of Fatima imposes an obligation on the Church, and he publicly attributed to Our Lady of Fatima his escape from death in the assassination attempt of May 13, 1981the very anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima.

www.fatima.org
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Aug 23 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: 6. But isnt Fatima just a private apparition no Catholic has to believe?

A: Far from it. The apparitions at Fatima were confirmed by a public miracle witnessed by 70,000 peoplethe Miracle of the Sun. Pope John Paul II himself declared at Fatima in 1982 that the Message of Fatima imposes an obligation on the Church, and he publicly attributed to Our Lady of Fatima his escape from death in the assassination attempt of May 13, 1981the very anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima.

http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/faqconse.asp
www.ewtn.com

Difference between public and private revelation, from EWTN. It explicitly classifies Fatima as the latter. wave
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Aug 23 new
John,

Good Lord! You sure like to argue and criticize, don't you? You really picked my whole post apart...I wonder if you would have done so with a woman who agreed with your views...

I was hoping for a little constructive advice and prayerful support from fellow CMers. What was I thinking?

You're suggesting that I'm hiding facts?

For your information, my late husband was our pastor's employee and best friend for 8 years. He buried my mother, my mother and father-in-law, my husband, several dear friends, married one of my daughters, baptized two of my grandchildren and I am privileged to have my thoughts respected by him. I have also been the recipient of many of his kindnesses since my husband's passing...THAT is why I am 'confused'.

YES, I spoke directly to Father, asking and receiving his permission. I would never just 'run off to the secretaries', as you suggested. You make it sound like I have a screw loose and this lack of cooperation is somehow my fault. I do go out of my way to 'follow the rules', if it's your place to monitor me.

Then, you suggest that the pastor is 'protecting' the parishes from me and my 'skewed view' of Russia's consecration. Are you kidding? I never force my view on others, as you are doing. I am a patient listener and enjoy a good, fair debate...but reading your comments the past few days is wearing it thin. I do not go around shouting from the rooftops that Russia has not been properly consecrated IN UNION WITH ALL OF THE BISHOPS, as Mary requested, but I will not shy away from offering the facts when asked by others.

Honestly, I suggest you spend less time on the computer and more time where real people talk and discuss issues face-to-face, in pleasant conversation and good-natured give-and-take. Nonetheless, I sincerely wish you well and have no hard feelings. May God grant you your heart's desire. And may He be glorified and His Mother honored now and forever!

Ave Maria

,
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Aug 23 new
(quote) Tracy-929496 said: John,

Good Lord! You sure like to argue and criticize, don't you? You really picked my whole post apart...I wonder if you would have done so with a woman who agreed with your views...

I was hoping for a little constructive advice and prayerful support from fellow CMers. What was I thinking?

You're suggesting that I'm hiding facts?

For your information, my late husband was our pastor's employee and best friend for 8 years. He buried my mother, my mother and father-in-law, my husband, several dear friends, married one of my daughters, baptized two of my grandchildren and I am privileged to have my thoughts respected by him. I have also been the recipient of many of his kindnesses since my husband's passing...THAT is why I am 'confused'.

YES, I spoke directly to Father, asking and receiving his permission. I would never just 'run off to the secretaries', as you suggested. You make it sound like I have a screw loose and this lack of cooperation is somehow my fault. I do go out of my way to 'follow the rules', if it's your place to monitor me.

Then, you suggest that the pastor is 'protecting' the parishes from me and my 'skewed view' of Russia's consecration. Are you kidding? I never force my view on others, as you are doing. I am a patient listener and enjoy a good, fair debate...but reading your comments the past few days is wearing it thin. I do not go around shouting from the rooftops that Russia has not been properly consecrated IN UNION WITH ALL OF THE BISHOPS, as Mary requested, but I will not shy away from offering the facts when asked by others.

Honestly, I suggest you spend less time on the computer and more time where real people talk and discuss issues face-to-face, in pleasant conversation and good-natured give-and-take. Nonetheless, I sincerely wish you well and have no hard feelings. May God grant you your heart's desire. And may He be glorified and His Mother honored now and forever!

Ave Maria

,
Tracy,

I won't pretend to know you or anyone through these posts. When I respond, I am responding solely on the basis of what is presented, and my perception of it. I don't have a problem for apologizing when I am wrong.

So then, instead of me surmising further, since you know the priest well, why is it that he pulled your insert? Are you saying that he saw the insert and said ok, and then chose to reverse himself?

To be honest with you, even now, you are presenting a very confusing situation, in my view. There are all kinds of inconsistencies that you write, but I will just let it go.

In my previous post, I was just trying to help to clear some of the confusion (for what I thought would be your benefit) that I perceived solely on the basis of what you wrote.

Lastly, please point out to me what exactly I am forcing on you, or anyone else.
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Aug 23 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: 6. But isnt Fatima just a private apparition no Catholic has to believe?

A: Far from it. The apparitions at Fatima were confirmed by a public miracle witnessed by 70,000 peoplethe Miracle of the Sun. Pope John Paul II himself declared at Fatima in 1982 that the Message of Fatima imposes an obligation on the Church, and he publicly attributed to Our Lady of Fatima his escape from death in the assassination attempt of May 13, 1981the very anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima.

http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/faqconse.asp
Bernard, Did all 70,000 hear Mary give the secrets, or was it just the three children? Was it not just the tree children? It seems pretty private.

The fact that tens of thousands were on hand to witness the event of "the Miracle of the Sun" just helps to solidify the fact that miraculous events were occurring. Hence the Church's recognition and JPII's expression of the Church's obligation as well as his as pope. And he obliged fully with his second go at it and the faithful joined in along with the bishops of the world.
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Aug 23 new
(quote) Edward-4511 said: http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/PRIPUB.TXT

Difference between public and private revelation, from EWTN. It explicitly classifies Fatima as the latter.
So you think you just won the argument by declaring Fatima Message dead, because it's a private revelation? Okay Edward,I guess you are right,and everything the Mother of God said will happen, will not come to pass? That a chastisement will somehow not happen,because it's a private revelation? That's not reality my friend.You are deceiving yourself.
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Aug 24 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: So you think you just won the argument by declaring Fatima Message dead, because it's a private revelation?
Bernard,

Your conclusion is not correct. Edward is not saying that at all. The point is that the salvation of one's soul is not dependent on private revelations of others. And that has always been the case.
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Aug 24 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: So you think you just won the argument....
It's not about winning at all Bernard... it's about being factual... speaking the truth.
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Aug 24 new
Dear all,
the most important thing to kow is this:
Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi read the third secret and was personal papal theologian to popes Pius XII, john XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul i and John Paul II. He was quoted in the journal "Catholic", March 2002:
"In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top".
Traditional catholics are bullied for resisting these apostate times. The disobediance started with pope John XXIII when he refused the request of Our Lady, Our Mother, when She said the third secret must be revealed by 1960. Pope John XXIII decided to disobey, and the slippery slope started in earnest. Only the consecration of RUSSIA can save us now, but what can we the faithful do? We must practice the first saturdays. How utterly sad, to see how few people are doing the first saturdays devotion.
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Aug 24 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: So you think you just won the argument by declaring Fatima Message dead, because it's a private revelation? Okay Edward,I guess you are right,and everything the Mother of God said will happen, will not come to pass? That a chastisement will somehow not happen,because it's a private revelation? That's not reality my friend.You are deceiving yourself.
I did not say that I don't believe in Fatima. I only meant to show that believing in it is not essential for salvation.
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