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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Aug 24th 2013 new
(quote) Edward-4511 said: I did not say that I don't believe in Fatima. I only meant to show that believing in it is not essential for salvation.
That may be Edward,but we will all suffer,and have suffered the effects here in this life of the failure of the consecration of Russia.There will be Hell to pay here and now.Millions have already died as a result of Athiestic Communism.It's not over either.The Communists are wearing a different mask.Now it's the New World Order.It's all the same thing.The traitors are lined up behind their master Satan,and are waging War!.Not just Militarily,but a battles for souls.We are on the verge of World War Three as we speak! goo.gl
So what's the point of even bring up the Elephant in the room argument in the first place!
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Aug 24th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: It's not about winning at all Bernard... it's about being factual... speaking the truth.
You're wrong John.It is about winning.Good over evil.Souls are at stake.The facts are all here too.Fatima.Org
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Aug 24th 2013 new
Bernard, the truth is always good and wins over souls. Now will you let the tread come back to initial topic (a current event about to take place)... the consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?
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Aug 24th 2013 new
(quote) Antony-464244 said: Dear all,
the most important thing to kow is this:
Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi read the third secret and was personal papal theologian to popes Pius XII, john XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul i and John Paul II. He was quoted in the journal "Catholic", March 2002:
"In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top".
Traditional catholics are bullied for resisting these apostate times. The disobediance started with pope John XXIII when he refused the request of Our Lady, Our Mother, when She said the third secret must be revealed by 1960. Pope John XXIII decided to disobey, and the slippery slope started in earnest. Only the consecration of RUSSIA can save us now, but what can we the faithful do? We must practice the first saturdays. How utterly sad, to see how few people are doing the first saturdays devotion.
Now we are getting somewhere, and it's not good.

Nor is there sufficient will to focus on the initial point of this thread.

Antony, do you realize the implication that comes with this belief? You just made the argument where if you truly believe what you wrote you have identified yourself as a sedevacantist.

Antony, you believe that the Chair of Peter is vacant or worse yet, occupied by apostates? Six popes in a row?? You, and those like minded, really need to think about what you are saying before it is too late for each and every one of you.

In a nutshell, hoping to hang around and wait for some future pope to declare all the popes since John XXIII as apostates, and declare Vatican II a council inspired by the devil is sheer lunacy. It's also a direct affront against God. It is calling the Holy Spirit out as having not delivered the promise Christ made! This argument makes God out as a liar not just the popes!
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Aug 25th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: Now we are getting somewhere, and it's not good.

Nor is there sufficient will to focus on the initial point of this thread.

Antony, do you realize the implication that comes with this belief? You just made the argument where if you truly believe what you wrote you have identified yourself as a sedevacantist.

Antony, you believe that the Chair of Peter is vacant or worse yet, occupied by apostates? Six popes in a row?? You, and those like minded, really need to think about what you are saying before it is too late for each and every one of you.

In a nutshell, hoping to hang around and wait for some future pope to declare all the popes since John XXIII as apostates, and declare Vatican II a council inspired by the devil is sheer lunacy. It's also a direct affront against God. It is calling the Holy Spirit out as having not delivered the promise Christ made! This argument makes God out as a liar not just the popes!
He didn't say the Popes were invalid.
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Aug 25th 2013 new
Please watch the video, it is about an hour long and it discusses Heavens key to peace. The video is a few years old but I feel it is still very relevant even for today. www.youtube.com

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Aug 25th 2013 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: He didn't say the Popes were invalid.
Nor did I think he said that... the word "apostate" was used
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Aug 25th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: Nor did I think he said that... the word "apostate" was used
Apostate is not synonymous with invalid claimant to the Petrine Throne. Apostasy (like any mortal sin) does not depose the Supreme Pontiff, as no successor of St. Peter was promised impeccability, and there is no higher earthly authority than the Pope. St. Bonaventure states quite clearly in his Breviloquium that the institution of Christ's Church is upon authority and not faith or charity, as no ecclesiastic himself can even know with an infallible certitude (barring a singular divine revelation) whether he is worthy of love or of wrath. This is in Our Lord's own words of institution to Peter as the foundation upon which He'd build His Church, not Peter's faith or charity. He gave Peter the right to command obedience and the ability to teach ex cathedra infallibly, not withdrew his ability to sin.
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Aug 25th 2013 new
Generally, I agree with what you say Chelsea.

What I find extremely difficult to swallow is the assertion that the entire lineage of popes beginning with John XXIII and to this day are leading the apostasy against the Church. Actually, I am not swallowing that at all. Furthermore, I find comments claiming it EXTREMELY offensive to me as a practicing Catholic, yet not without flaws.
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Aug 25th 2013 new
John,

Antony's comment is not calling Pope John XXIII an apostate, nor any other Pope for that matter. It is merely reporting from someone who claimed to be in the know regarding the third part of the Secret of Fatima, that an apostasy would occur in the Church, and that it would start from the top.

Apostasy takes a LOT more than disobedience to effect. The disobedience of the Popes regarding what Our Lady has required in the second part of the Secret of Fatima is historically demonstrable.

Yet another consecration (or even another "entrustment") of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Our Lady will bring about graces for those in the Mystical Body, but it won't be a consecration of Russia particularly, no matter which way you try to slice it. So Russia is no longer Imperial, so the USSR is now defunct, that doesn't make Russia non-existent and thereby remove any requirement of the Supreme Pontiff to consecrate it. To dispute the validity of the command to consecrate Russia based upon the notion that conditions of Russia then are not conditions of Russia now is like saying that Our Lady really had no idea when World War II actually was started or that Pius XI was going to be the Pope at the time, even though she revealed these things.

By acknowledging the Secret of Fatima as worthy of belief and giving a nod toward what Our Lady requires, the Popes have put the magnifying glass upon themselves and given us a standard by which to measure their actions. It's not to our detriment to say that something doesn't add up when people who speak for the Pope try to pass off a separate act relative to the command of Our Lady at Fatima as the fulfillment of the command...especially when no Pope will make such a claim.
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