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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: The Obama administrations' policy is just so completely incoherent.

Just as one example.... I'll bet that never in the history of warfare over the last 10,000 years has any leader (and his/her administration) characterized an imminent military action as "unbelievably small" (John Kerry, yesterday) and and then followed up, mere hours later by announcing that our military "does not do pinpricks" (Obama, today). It just sounds so ridiculous. No one would ever write such lines into a movie.... It would just sound to stupid and unbelievable to be taken seriously. I'll bet this made Putin laugh out loud.

Ed
And all this is going on in the middle of a Civil war in Syria.

I am not sure how the UN Peacekeepers, who will look for the chemical weapons,
will be safe going into a country in the middle of the civil war.

Doesn't this seem like the TV screen is part of this war communication between
countries and heads of state?

The Pope, Putin, Assad, and Obama, and lets not forget Kerry, all are making
their views known on television and receiving responses also.
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) William-607613 said: John,

I have to be brief here.

As Catholics, we should all be applauding Putin's actions over Obama's (yes, even if we question the motive). Obama was banging the drums for an attack on yet another mideast country, and on the flimsiest of evidence. It was Putin who was urging restraint (taking the Catholic position here).

Let's keep in mind that when Pope Francis wanted to reach out to a world leader and send a letter urging him to slow down the push towards this attack, he didn't send the letter to Obama (the president of the superpower that was moving towards an attack), he sent the letter to Putin. http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-writes-letter-to-president-putin-of-r


I get what you say William. Pope Francis has some political savvy. Putin has to do that stuff like every day for the next 5 years before I'd buy Russia stock. Right now Obama needs to make sure that Assad hears this:

"ENOUGH! JUST PUT THE CHEM WEAPONS OUT ON THE CURB. You will never again play with those nasty toys you've made and use them in the worst way. The UN garbage pickup service will be by to pick them up in the morning. If the chemical weapons are not there (with full accounting), then we'll just have to pry them from your claws. Now, go, get busy; you have little time.

BTW, don't try to hide the toys. Doing so will deliver triple jeopardy to you. We know what you have.
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: I put no stock in Putin, but William does raise an eyebrow when an American prefers Putin's actions above those of Obama's. Essentially, what does it say about Obama?!

At this juncture, Obama needs to keep the heat on both Syria's Assad and on Putin. Does Putin really want Assad standing next to him, after what he just did?
At this juncture, contrasting the two in light of William's comment tells us an awful lot.

What is so bothersome is that the Obummer lovers just don't see it. He dithers and his supporters look for someone to blame, anyone but the obvious failure.

In any business being run to make a profit, a head man with a 5 year record of failure and incompetence would be replaced with no blame laying on any other than the one who failed and that failure bounced and replaced before permanent damage is done.

Instead in today's world (and not just in the US) failure is rewarded and success punished.
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) William-607613 said: As Catholics, we should all be applauding Putin's actions over Obama's (yes, even if we question the motive). Obama was banging the drums for an attack on yet another mideast country, and on the flimsiest of evidence. It was Putin who was urging restraint (taking the Catholic position here).

Let's keep in mind that when Pope Francis wanted to reach out to a world leader and send a letter urging him to slow down the push towards this attack, he didn't send the letter to Obama (the president of the superpower that was moving towards an attack), he sent the letter to Putin. http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-writes-letter-to-president-putin-of-r


William,

I have some agreement and some disagreement with your post....

To the extent that Putin's words turn out to be genuine, I applaud them. Perhaps Pope Francis's communication with Putin may have done some good. I'll believe it when I see it.

I think that is is foolish though to believe that Putin is "taking the Catholic position here", as you stated. Putin is taking a position that is beneficial to him and Assad. It just so happens that his words seem to coincide with a more Catholic position. He couldn't care less whether he is seen as a friend of Catholics or other Christians. This position just serves Putin's purpose at this time. If an Italian mob boss were to donate generously to the Catholic Church, should one say that the mob boss is a friend of the Catholic Church? I think not. The mob boss has other motives.

I think that you made a LARGE, but subtle error in you last post. You wrote .... "As Catholics, we should all be applauding Putin's actions.....". You are confusing words with actions. All Putin has done so far is to say some nice-sounding words. There have been no actions (so far) by Putin or Assad to show that the words are genuine. I think it is foolish to applaud Putin's words until he follows up with actions.

Finally, if Putin is such a peace-wanting, Christian-liking person, why is he saying just within the last 12 hours that he will do what he can to provide arms and some sort of nuclear deal to Iran (see below)? How does this conform to the "Catholic postition"? ..... Not very well, I think.

Putin to offer Iran 'arms, nuclear deal' at summit

www.bangkokpost.com


---------------------------------
Actions matter. Words are rather disposable. This is no time to be wearing rose-colored glasses in regard to Putin or Assad.

Ed




Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: At this juncture, contrasting the two in light of William's comment tells us an awful lot.

What is so bothersome is that the Obummer lovers just don't see it. He dithers and his supporters look for someone to blame, anyone but the obvious failure.

In any business being run to make a profit, a head man with a 5 year record of failure and incompetence would be replaced with no blame laying on any other than the one who failed and that failure bounced and replaced before permanent damage is done.

Instead in today's world (and not just in the US) failure is rewarded and success punished.
It is too bad that we can't do a Mulligan re-vote for president next week. I think that it would turn out differently. Oh well.... Just wishful thinking.

Mulligan:
en.wikipedia.org

Ed

Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: I get what you say William. Pope Francis has some political savvy. Putin has to do that stuff like every day for the next 5 years before I'd buy Russia stock. Right now Obama needs to make sure that Assad hears this:

"ENOUGH! JUST PUT THE CHEM WEAPONS OUT ON THE CURB. You will never again play with those nasty toys you've made and use them in the worst way. The UN garbage pickup service will be by to pick them up in the morning. If the chemical weapons are not there (with full accounting), then we'll just have to pry them from your claws. Now, go, get busy; you have little time.

BTW, don't try to hide the toys. Doing so will deliver triple jeopardy to you. We know what you have.
Pope Francis has some political savvy.

It's a lot more than political savvy, John. (We're talking about Christ's representative here on earth, mind you.) If you look at Putin's support of religion in Russia and Obama's dismissal of it here in the United States, I'm sure Pope Francis saw Putin as being far more receptive to his message than Obama would be.


Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: William,

I have some agreement and some disagreement with your post....

To the extent that Putin's words turn out to be genuine, I applaud them. Perhaps Pope Francis's communication with Putin may have done some good. I'll believe it when I see it.

I think that is is foolish though to believe that Putin is "taking the Catholic position here", as you stated. Putin is taking a position that is beneficial to him and Assad. It just so happens that his words seem to coincide with a more Catholic position. He couldn't care less whether he is seen as a friend of Catholics or other Christians. This position just serves Putin's purpose at this time. If an Italian mob boss were to donate generously to the Catholic Church, should one say that the mob boss is a friend of the Catholic Church? I think not. The mob boss has other motives.

I think that you made a LARGE, but subtle error in you last post. You wrote .... "As Catholics, we should all be applauding Putin's actions.....". You are confusing words with actions. All Putin has done so far is to say some nice-sounding words. There have been no actions (so far) by Putin or Assad to show that the words are genuine. I think it is foolish to applaud Putin's words until he follows up with actions.

Finally, if Putin is such a peace-wanting, Christian-liking person, why is he saying just within the last 12 hours that he will do what he can to provide arms and some sort of nuclear deal to Iran (see below)? How does this conform to the "Catholic postition"? ..... Not very well, I think.
Putin to offer Iran 'arms, nuclear deal' at summithttp://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/369221/putin-to-offer-iran-arms-nuclear-deal-at-summit


---------------------------------
Actions matter. Words are rather disposable. This is no time to be wearing rose-colored glasses in regard to Putin or Assad.

Ed




I think that you made a LARGE, but subtle error in you last post. You wrote .... "As Catholics, we should all be applauding Putin's actions.....". You are confusing words with actions. All Putin has done so far is to say some nice-sounding words. There have been no actions (so far) by Putin or Assad to show that the words are genuine. I think it is foolish to applaud Putin's words until he follows up with actions.


Ed,

Let's look at the words and actions of two different people during the last seven days. One of them was ordering ships into the Mediterranean and saying that he might launch a military attack on Syria at any time; this scared the daylights out of everyone on earth who had reached the age of reason. The other was saying, "Well, I don't have any Nobel Prize so I might not know what I am talking about, but I think there might be a better way to accomplish your goals without firing a shot. Why don't we try this?"

You should be looking at our President, shaking your head, and asking, "Why didn't you take this step first?"

Do I believe Putin? No more than I believe the next guy. But hey. Looking at the performance of these two men over the last week, give me the restraint and maturity of Putin anytime.

Do I simply walk away and trust everybody? No. But I don't understand how you are so critical of Putin, when it was Obama who was marching us off to what could have easily been an out of control war, and not Putin.



Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) William-607613 said: Pope Francis has some political savvy.

It's a lot more than political savvy, John. (We're talking about Christ's representative here on earth, mind you.) If you look at Putin's support of religion in Russia and Obama's dismissal of it here in the United States, I'm sure Pope Francis saw Putin as being far more receptive to his message than Obama would be.


There is nothing greater that we can offer than prayer to the One true God; Triune ---> Father, Son and Holy Ghost!!!

Can you share any pictures of Putin in a pew?
Sep 11th 2013 new
I maybe a slow learner but no one has asked, "How did Syria get those chemical weapons?" Could they have come from Iraq? Hummmm. Interesting since some said Hussein had no weapons?
Sep 11th 2013 new
It's a mute point now. What is relevant is that Syria is not using them as a deterrent, but preemptively.
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