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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: There is nothing greater that we can offer than prayer to the One true God; Triune ---> Father, Son and Holy Ghost!!!

Can you share any pictures of Putin in a pew?
John... and William,

You will find this quite interesting: As for "Putin in a pew".... go to 4min, 55 seconds on the video. You will see him and his family at Eastern Orthodox Mass, and making the sign of the cross. I read somewhere else on the internet that he attends Mass basically on Christmas, Easter, etc. I have no other information on that. Perhaps Pope Francis can use this route to reach Putin..... Hopefully so. But I would have to see much more from Putin, in a positive sense. I don't see how he could claim to be an upstanding Christian or Catholic and then still support the government of Iran (and others) in the way that he does. I see him more like the ultimate mob boss that sometimes goes to church on Sunday to put on a good appearance. Maybe I'll be proven wrong sometime in the future.... but I'm not holding my breath.

Vladimir Putin's Christian Faith - in his own words

www.youtube.com

Ed

Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: There is nothing greater that we can offer than prayer to the One true God; Triune ---> Father, Son and Holy Ghost!!!

Can you share any pictures of Putin in a pew?
I'm not sure what you're getting at.

If I could show you pictures of Obama in a pew would you believe he was more Christian than Putin?

If I could show you pictures of pro-abortion politicians receiving Holy Communion, would you accept that as evidence of a stong faith?
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: John... and William,

You will find this quite interesting: As for "Putin in a pew".... go to 4min, 55 seconds on the video. You will see him and his family at Eastern Orthodox Mass, and making the sign of the cross. I read somewhere else on the internet that he attends Mass basically on Christmas, Easter, etc. I have no other information on that. Perhaps Pope Francis can use this route to reach Putin..... Hopefully so. But I would have to see much more from Putin, in a positive sense. I don't see how he could claim to be an upstanding Christian or Catholic and then still support the government of Iran (and others) in the way that he does. I see him more like the ultimate mob boss that sometimes goes to church on Sunday to put on a good appearance. Maybe I'll be proven wrong sometime in the future.... but I'm not holding my breath.
Vladimir Putin's Christian Faith - in his own wordshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3d_yxJhmjk

Ed

Cool Ed, as long as his KGB comrades of old are no longer pretending to be Russian Orthodox Priests and he's just not paying a social visit to them semi-annually. In the 1930's, 40's & 50"s the KGB (known by another name back then) was notorious. They had infiltrated and held every seat available within the Russian Orthodox Priesthood for decades. Proof of this exists!

Imagine, true Orthodox going to offer their confessions to such low-life scum!

I don't trust Putin any more than I trust Obama. But thanks for digging this up and sharing, ED; nice job!
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: John... and William,

You will find this quite interesting: As for "Putin in a pew".... go to 4min, 55 seconds on the video. You will see him and his family at Eastern Orthodox Mass, and making the sign of the cross. I read somewhere else on the internet that he attends Mass basically on Christmas, Easter, etc. I have no other information on that. Perhaps Pope Francis can use this route to reach Putin..... Hopefully so. But I would have to see much more from Putin, in a positive sense. I don't see how he could claim to be an upstanding Christian or Catholic and then still support the government of Iran (and others) in the way that he does. I see him more like the ultimate mob boss that sometimes goes to church on Sunday to put on a good appearance. Maybe I'll be proven wrong sometime in the future.... but I'm not holding my breath.
Vladimir Putin's Christian Faith - in his own wordshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3d_yxJhmjk

Ed

Ed,

That was very nice of you to show something that would tend to support your opponent's argument.

I have read in several places that Putin has called for a greater role for the Russian Orthodox Church in public life, and has personally promised to defend Christians worldwide. (We should be charitable to him, lest we find ourselves persecuted to the point where we are knocking on his door.) ;o)

On a sobering note, we should keep in mind the Blessed Mother's promise at Fatima in 1917, when she said that "Russia would be converted." (Note that Pope Benedict XVI had opened up a dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church to try and put an end to a 950 year-old split.)

For all of the problems that Russia has (and they are not minimal), their trendline is moving towards religion as the West's trendline is moving away from it. As Catholics, we should not be surprised to see Russian political leaders take a more Catholic position than our own leaders do. Whether we are talking about homosexual "marriage" or military action, I think we will only see more of this.
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) William-607613 said: I'm not sure what you're getting at.

If I could show you pictures of Obama in a pew would you believe he was more Christian than Putin?

If I could show you pictures of pro-abortion politicians receiving Holy Communion, would you accept that as evidence of a stong faith?
My point is that when it comes to religion, I think Putin is in the same boat as Obama and those pro-abort politicians; well into themselves, mostly show, little substance and heavy handedly sacrilegious.

You made a good point and that is why I want to continue to see GODLIKE MORALITY from these men in leadership roles. Just the same of women as well.
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: Cool Ed, as long as his KGB comrades of old are no longer pretending to be Russian Orthodox Priests and he's just not paying a social visit to them semi-annually. In the 1930's, 40's & 50"s the KGB (known by another name back then) was notorious. They had infiltrated and held every seat available within the Russian Orthodox Priesthood for decades. Proof of this exists!

Imagine, true Orthodox going to offer their confessions to such low-life scum!

I don't trust Putin any more than I trust Obama. But thanks for digging this up and sharing, ED; nice job!
In the 1930's, 40's & 50"s the KGB (known by another name back then) was notorious. They had infiltrated and held every seat available within the Russian Orthodox Priesthood for decades. Proof of this exists!

If this is true, and I'll accept your word for it, then every Russian should breathe a sigh of relief at such a display of evidence that their church could not possibly be divine.


Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: My point is that when it comes to religion, I think Putin is in the same boat as Obama and those pro-abort politicians; well into themselves, mostly show, little substance and heavy handedly sacrilegious.

You made a good point and that is why I want to continue to see GODLIKE MORALITY from these men in leadership roles. Just the same of women as well.
I wouldn't put Putin in the same boat as Obama or any pro-abortion politicians.

As I wrote in my previous post, he has called for a much greater role for the Russian Orthodox Church in public life. I would argue that Obama and pro-abortion politicians would like to see organized religion simply disappear.
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) William-607613 said: Let's look at the words and actions of two different people during the last seven days. One of them was ordering ships into the Mediterranean and saying that he might launch a military attack on Syria at any time; this scared the daylights out of everyone on earth who had reached the age of reason. The other was saying, "Well, I don't have any Nobel Prize so I might not know what I am talking about, but I think there might be a better way to accomplish your goals without firing a shot. Why don't we try this?"

You should be looking at our President, shaking your head, and asking, "Why didn't you take this step first?"

Do I believe Putin? No more than I believe the next guy. But hey. Looking at the performance of these two men over the last week, give me the restraint and maturity of Putin anytime.

Do I simply walk away and trust everybody? No. But I don't understand how you are so critical of Putin, when it was Obama who was marching us off to what could have easily been an out of control war, and not Putin.



William,

Apparently you have not been reading any of my posts concerning my negative comments about Obama. I've grown weary of shaking my head at Obama. Check the posts in this thread (and everywhere else for that matter). I'm not going to reprint all of them here. I mostly gave up on Obama a long time ago. Obama is so unqualified for this current Syrian situation, that he couldn't find a way out of it unless he tripped over the solution.... which he has. Putin has shown much more skill in this situation than has Obama. Obama is just grasping for things in the dark.

But Putin has only made nice-sounding words at this point.... and absolutely no actions to back up his words.... And Putin doesn't have a good resume of fostering (or wanting) peace, harmony, free speech/expression, and democracy in the world.... and he doesn't care so much about human rights either.

Ed
Sep 11th 2013 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: William,

I have some agreement and some disagreement with your post....

To the extent that Putin's words turn out to be genuine, I applaud them. Perhaps Pope Francis's communication with Putin may have done some good. I'll believe it when I see it.

I think that is is foolish though to believe that Putin is "taking the Catholic position here", as you stated. Putin is taking a position that is beneficial to him and Assad. It just so happens that his words seem to coincide with a more Catholic position. He couldn't care less whether he is seen as a friend of Catholics or other Christians. This position just serves Putin's purpose at this time. If an Italian mob boss were to donate generously to the Catholic Church, should one say that the mob boss is a friend of the Catholic Church? I think not. The mob boss has other motives.

I think that you made a LARGE, but subtle error in you last post. You wrote .... "As Catholics, we should all be applauding Putin's actions.....". You are confusing words with actions. All Putin has done so far is to say some nice-sounding words. There have been no actions (so far) by Putin or Assad to show that the words are genuine. I think it is foolish to applaud Putin's words until he follows up with actions.

Finally, if Putin is such a peace-wanting, Christian-liking person, why is he saying just within the last 12 hours that he will do what he can to provide arms and some sort of nuclear deal to Iran (see below)? How does this conform to the "Catholic postition"? ..... Not very well, I think.
Putin to offer Iran 'arms, nuclear deal' at summithttp://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/369221/putin-to-offer-iran-arms-nuclear-deal-at-summit


---------------------------------
Actions matter. Words are rather disposable. This is no time to be wearing rose-colored glasses in regard to Putin or Assad.

Ed




Putin had a delivery of parts to Iran that was suspended at the request of the US and Israel. In hindsight, it appears to have been a gentleman's agreement that Putin would "play nice" if the US and Israel "played nice." If the US or Israel did not "play nice," then Putin would no longer "play nice" and would go ahead and complete the delivery of what I believe to be parts for a reactor in Iran. (This new offer may also be missiles or missile components as well.)

If the US were to attack Syria without conclusive evidence that the Assad regime had gassed citizens (and the evidence that our government has provided is not, in fact, conclusive), then because we were not "playing nice," then neither would Putin.

Putin has very little leverage over the US. This is the one issue that would get our attention and Israel's, because Israel is terrified of a nuclear-powered Iran, and they are more terrified of an Iran that could deter an attack against itself.

Let's keep in mind what started this whole thing. It wasn't Putin. It was Obama. It was Obama racing towards an attack against Syria, which could literally start World War III. Putin is responding to our mouth-breathing president and his sycophants in Congress. (Obama was far more than inept here, by the way. He was leading us towards an attack on a country. This wasn't a simple gaffe.)

Putin did not ask for the spotllight which the US unwittingly gave him. He is not asking for the grief that the members of Catholic Match are heaping on him. In all of your thoughts and words on this subject, please keep in mind that it is Putin who is responding to an overly-aggressive American president.

Ed, for all of your concern about Putin's record to human rights, let's look at this president's record as well as his predecessor's.

During the war in Iraq, 109,000 Iraqis died. We know this because this is a CIA estimate that came out in a Wikileaks dump. Before anyone responds that the Americans didn't kill all of these people (through accident or by design), I would remind that person that the US completely turned a country upside down and smashed its infrastructure. The infrastructure that had been in place to protect the citizens of Iraq was gone, and there was nobody left to protect them. (I'm not trying to change the focus of the thread.)

Our foreign policy in the Middle East (courtesy of both Obama and his predecessor), has led to absolute mayhem in countries where we were perfectly willing to do business with their secular leaders until we turned on them on a dime. Hussein, Mubarak, Qaddafi are either dead or in jail, and their citizens have had their lives completely thrown upside down and torn inside out. Many of our Christian brothers and sisters are either dead or living in a foreign country because of asinine decisions US presidents have made.

And all I hear is how untrustworthy Putin is. Ask Saddam Hussein how trustworthy Donald Rumsfeld is, as Donald Rumsfeld met with him and shook his hand back during the Reagan Administration. Oh, wait. You can't ask Saddam Hussein, because Saddam Hussein is dead. Ask Qaddaffi how trustworthy the Americans are; he gave up his pursuit of nuclear weapons because George Bush asked him nicely to do so. Oh, wait. You can't ask Qaddaffi, because Qaddaffi is dead.

Putin stepped in and averted what may have been WWIII, and we are looking past the log jammed in our eye and pointing to each other about the splinter in his own.
Sep 11th 2013 new
I have been much more skeptical of Putin over the past several years as he seems to have grown more and more fond of the good-old-days of Soviet rule. After all, it was so much easier to keep people in line when the Soviets could "make them disappear", send them to a hard-labor camp, ship them to Siberia and make them spy on their neighbors.

Ed
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