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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Sep 12 new
(quote) Michelle-860764 said:  WHO are you to condemn someone else to HELL for the choices they make?
From John's comment ... "Pre-marital sex is a mortal sin; it's not in agreement with Christ's teaching; ... Such should get with the Church teaching.... ".

I read his comments as:
It is the person who committed the sin that is condemning them self by their actions - as they are not in Christ's teaching. I did not read it as John doing the condemning.

Such should get with the Church teaching (repentance of the sin and acceptance of the teachings) is where the forgiveness comes from and the avoidance of HELL. From previous conversations, John is one that seems to believe very strongly in forgiveness - through the sacrament of penance.

I read John's comments more as instructional rather than condemning and non forgiving.


Sep 12 new
(quote) Michelle-860764 said: I understand the Church's teaching on this topic. I also believe in the Church's teaching on this topic. Where is the FORGIVENESS in your reply here. WHO are you to condemn someone else to HELL for the choices they make? That is up to ONE "The One and Only.....GOD" not MAN or mortal human beings.

Priests are who we look to for guidance and support when we do fall not for condemnation and ridicule.

Example: If my daughter came home pregnant I certainly would NOT send her away in shame. I may not be happy about it but I would try to be understanding and help them through it. That is what Jesus teaches. We are to lift each other up in love......condemnation does not work, in fact it has an opposite effect many times.
Michelle -- perhaps you are confusing people 'condemning others to hell' (something only God can do) with people making others aware of the consequences of their choices (we are called to do this in the Bible). None of us are called to condemn or forgive another's choices (unless they are sinning against us personally) because that IS up to God -- but when someone is clearly going against God's commandments, we ARE called to call it to their attention, not support them in their sin. Perhaps what feels like ridicule is just not wanting to hear the truth? I, for one, don't want to die with mortal sin on my soul and I'm glad for awareness of my sins and the gift of Grace to fight against committing more.
Sep 12 new
(quote) Evelyn-1009190 said: I have just been wondering how easy or difficult it is in our world today going according to the Bible's teachings to remain celebate till after marriage. Does it still exist. Would your relationship survive. Just wondering and need your thoughts on this one.
A happy marriage has got no short cut; its good to abstain and wait; also seek God's will , many people expeciallly here in africa ,, would want to marry a girl if she is already one month or three pregnant ,, and this has become a rule,, so that incase she doesnt conceive you can do a way with her before procieeding to the altar;; its a suprise even the elders would ask if she is ok! so immediately after the wedding the lady gives biirth after a few months;

many of thiese marriages arent happy because they harried and took a short cut;
lets preach about waiting and abstaining; mmmany blessings truly come out of this;
Sep 12 new
(quote) Michelle-860764 said: I thought Mortal Sin is now called Grave Sin. What about repentance?
A grave sin is one that is objectively (that is, by its nature) very serious.

For a sin to be mortal, there are three factors that must be present:

(a) The sin must be grave.
(b) The person committing the sin must be aware it is grave.
(c) The person must commit the act freely. (For example, while robbing a bank is a grave sin, it would not be mortal if you did so because someone threatened to kill your family if you did not.)

Thus, all mortal sins are grave, but not all instances of grave sins are mortal (when one or both of the subjective factors are absent).

I don't understand what your question about repentance is.

Sep 12 new
(quote) Michelle-860764 said: I understand the Church's teaching on this topic. I also believe in the Church's teaching on this topic. Where is the FORGIVENESS in your reply here. WHO are you to condemn someone else to HELL for the choices they make? That is up to ONE "The One and Only.....GOD" not MAN or mortal human beings.

Priests are who we look to for guidance and support when we do fall not for condemnation and ridicule.

Example: If my daughter came home pregnant I certainly would NOT send her away in shame. I may not be happy about it but I would try to be understanding and help them through it. That is what Jesus teaches. We are to lift each other up in love......condemnation does not work, in fact it has an opposite effect many times.
I'm not quite sure where you are coming from here, as your comments are disconnected from the preceding discussion. John was commenting on those who do not accept the Church's teachings on pre-marital sex and contraception, and thus do not intent to keep them, not those who accept the teachings but have, through weakness, sinned in those regards and do intend to try to adhere to them.

Sep 12 new
(quote) Evelyn-1009190 said: Interesting thoughts Todd but how many people are willing to wait. What are the chances of being in a relationship leading to marriage since i believe most guys want to sleep with you before marriage
How many people are willing to wait?

Let me be blunt and honest -- I do not care how many people are willing to wait.

We all have our needs, wants, and desires and we all have an idea of what we want in a partner.
Wants and desires can be compromised...but, our needs should NEVER be compromised. I will not compromise what I need in a partner...and one thing I need is a partner who is happy to wait!

As others have stated, if sex before marriage is important/required/desired ... for/by/of the other person, then I walk. Marriage is to important...

I've been married...and I am now divorced... In all honesty, sex before my marriage destroyed it, before it ever began...

What are the chances of being in a relationship leading to marriage [without having sex]?

Well, I don't deal in chance, possibility, or probability -- and I don't think we should look at marriage in that light. We are given what we need, when we need it, and only after we are ready for it!

Do most guys want to have sex before marriage? I don't know.
Do most women want to have sex before marriage? I don't know.

Just think of the old adage (which applies equally to men and women):
-Why buy the cow when you can get the milk free?

So, in my opinion, we shouldn't worry ourselves over someone else's "need" for sexual activity/contact. We should worry about what we need.






Sep 12 new
Three cheers for Renee. Great post.
Sep 12 new
(quote) Michelle-860764 said: I understand the Church's teaching on this topic. I also believe in the Church's teaching on this topic. Where is the FORGIVENESS in your reply here. WHO are you to condemn someone else to HELL for the choices they make? That is up to ONE "The One and Only.....GOD" not MAN or mortal human beings.

Priests are who we look to for guidance and support when we do fall not for condemnation and ridicule.

Example: If my daughter came home pregnant I certainly would NOT send her away in shame. I may not be happy about it but I would try to be understanding and help them through it. That is what Jesus teaches. We are to lift each other up in love......condemnation does not work, in fact it has an opposite effect many times.
Michelle,

First, I am assuming you were responding to my post. If you are, than you are not understanding me, but putting a lot of assumptions into what I wrote. Perhaps I could have been more clear. I am a direct and to the point kind of guy, but for you I will slow down and explain. However, I do want to speak plainly so there is less chance of persons looking at my comments as watered down Catholicity.

Let me take it point by point...

I am not judging anyone to their final judgment. You are correct that is not for me to do. It's really the furthest thing from my mind. But we can definitely discern that premarital sex is a grave sin, a mortal sin IF unrepented and we die with it! Hence my words of warning... there is a HELL... ie. don't go to your death with sins on your soul; you won't like the rest of your life!!!

Christ will be the judge, for sure; not I. However, those who think pre-marital sex is just fine need to really wake up and smell the dung that sin is. I am not talking about anyone in particular, because it applies to all of us (including me), but we ourselves know this to be true; if we don't, we Catholics sure should.

So now we know where the Church stands; premarital sex is a mortal sin. Those with it, repent and do penance!!!

Grave sin is the same thing as mortal sin. If you understand there to be a difference, let me hear it.

We must confess mortal sins and do penance. When we go to confession, receive absolution and complete our penance, then the mortal sin is removed. So in a way, we can die a thousand even a million (or more - pathetically) spiritual deaths before we die, and by God's grace if repented, absolved and do our reparation are "born" again in Christ. Not doing so, and if the sin stays past death, well it is up to God, but Christ did say over and over what will keep us out of paradise.

Not getting into paradise on judgment day means that the alternative is hell.

When it comes to mortal sins, getting all the guidance and support from a priest (or any other human) might make one feel good, but unless we confess our sin and get the priest's absolution (as Christ's representative) his holding our hand, easing our consciences with his compassionate words - not Christ's - won't do squat for us in the end. Sorry, it won't; know it!

Regarding your example, of course I would not ultimately condemn any daughter (or son), I never said I would. But they/we need to know, even before they/we engage, that pre-marital sex is just plain wrong; it's against God's command. They/we also need to know how grave, mortally grave, the consequences are - not could be. We don't know when we will die; we all should act like it could be today. Let's not count on old age.
br>Well, I am sorry, but a mortal sin is something we should be ashamed of. It is a direct offense against God. If anyone does not like being called out for what they do, then they shouldn't do it. God made the rules.

If you are a Catholic like me, there is but one set of rules for all of us. Yours are not different than mine. We all should get to know God's playbook.
Sep 12 new
Pre-marital sex is not a choice. We can be as immoral as we want to be because we have free will. Sins of the flesh will always destroy us. The rate of divorce among people who have sex before marriage is about 60 percent but it is only about three percent among people who are obedient to Gods' Will.
Why do people talk about sleeping with someone when really they are having sex and not sleeping at all. If there is nothing wrong with having sex, why not call it what it is?
Sep 12 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: A grave sin is one that is objectively (that is, by its nature) very serious.

For a sin to be mortal, there are three factors that must be present:

(a) The sin must be grave.
(b) The person committing the sin must be aware it is grave.
(c) The person must commit the act freely. (For example, while robbing a bank is a grave sin, it would not be mortal if you did so because someone threatened to kill your family if you did not.)

Thus, all mortal sins are grave, but not all instances of grave sins are mortal (when one or both of the subjective factors are absent).

I don't understand what your question about repentance is.

Thank you for the clarification Jerry, I agree with the definition.
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