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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Kristen-878108 said: I don't have to toot my own horn. If one is with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that is under the authority of the bishop of Rome, one is Catholic. I would assume you also are a Catholic according to this reckoning.
I support the SSPX.Theyy are fully Catholic as I am.
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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: Contra your asertion, the SSPX are not Sedevacantist. They do acknowledge the Pope as the head of the Sea of Peter. Real sedevacantists are few and very scattered.

However, while the Pope is the center of unity for the Church, and speaks infallably in terms of faith and morals, there are areas where they have needed to be admonished. The most famous episode is mentioned in St. Paul's letter to the Galatians, where he "withstood him to his face" for separating himself from the converts of Antioch after the Council of Jerusalem. There is also St. Catherine's exhortation to the Pope to return to Rome and end the French captivity.

Imagine if, because the Pope was considered above criticism, he stayed in Avingon during the French Revolution?

Thanks for your comments, Steven. I again acknowledge my misstatement about SSPX. And I do not disagree with the rest of your points. In fact, I copy again below the last paragraph of my original statement:

"So my point is not that you can't question whether the pope's words might have been better said or if his words are being taken out of context or even that you can't disagree with his statements. But if this lack of confidence in the pope leads a person to distrust that the Holy Spirit is still in charge of the Church, then I think a Catholic is at risk of losing the "pearl of great price" of Faith in the person of Jesus Christ as the true King of our Church."

So as long as the Holy Spirit is not being distrusted, I think we're all good! smile
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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: I support the SSPX.Theyy are fully Catholic as I am.
Well then, that would be a point over which we would disagree.
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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Kristen-878108 said: Well then, that would be a point over which we would disagree.
It's not up to you to judge them or me.Please stop with your judgements.
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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: I support the SSPX.Theyy are fully Catholic as I am.
Whether the members of the SSPX are fully Catholic is not the issue. In the words of Pope Benedict XVI:

The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.

www.vatican.va.



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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: It's not up to you to judge them or me.Please stop with your judgements.
You are certainly correct that I cannot judge their hearts, but the reality that they are not in union with the Church is not a judgment made by me but is a reality they themselves maintain. While the ban of excommunication has been lifted by the Church, is it my understanding that this organization does not desire union with the Church.

www.vatican.va
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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: Whether the members of the SSPX are fully Catholic is not the issue. In the words of Pope Benedict XVI:

The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remiss...



Thanks for the clarification.
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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: Contra your asertion, the SSPX are not Sedevacantist. They do acknowledge the Pope as the head of the Sea of Peter. Real sedevacantists are few and very scattered.

However, while the Pope is the center of unity for the Church, and speaks infallably in terms of faith and morals, there are areas where they have needed to be admonished. The most famous episode is mentioned in St. Paul's letter to the Galatians, where he "withstood him to his face" for separating himself from the converts of Antioch after the Council of Jerusalem. There is also St. Catherine's exhortation to the Pope to return to Rome and end the French captivity.

Imagine if, because the Pope was considered above criticism, he stayed in Avingon during the French Revolution?

Part of the confusion in the sedevacantist point may be that more than a few supporters of the SSPX publicly express, often very emphatically, sedevacantist positions.
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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: Whether the members of the SSPX are fully Catholic is not the issue. In the words of Pope Benedict XVI:

The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remiss...



Whether or not they are fully Catholic or not was the Issue Jerry.You must have misread my posts.
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Oct 18th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: Part of the confusion in the sedevacantist point may be that more than a few supporters of the SSPX publicly express, often very emphatically, sedevacantist positions.
Can you show an example? No you can't.I can tell you that they would be told not to frequent the SSPX chapesl if they did.
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