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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Sep 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Katherine-137883 said: I agree with Patrick- the statements and the way they will be spun by the majority of liberals and the media are going to be hard to deal with. And yes, I am trying to keep an open mind and know this is very holy and good man who is more likely to hear God's voice than me. I do not want to part of the church that is attacking our pope. All that being said, I do not think our bishops and priests speak out enough about abortion and same sex marriage. I think we have seen much improvement in this area recently and I fear this will take that movement backwards. I believe the church suffered greatly years ago when the bishops failed to speak out on the evils of contraception. Now a small percentage of Catholics understand why birth control is morally wrong. And too many Catholics don't understand why abortion (including supporting abortion in any fashion such as electing politicians that strongly support abortion) is wrong. I don't know how many Catholics no longer believing supporting same sex marriage is wrong. That number is changing by the day.

Do they need to speak out with love and compassion? Yes. But unfortunately if you say something people don't want to hear, all the love and compassion you use is lost. You are labeled judgmental, hateful, whatever..... Will we find the right balance by teaching more "tolerance"? Or will we continue to water down the faith cause we don't want to talk about these uncomfortable issues?

I guess we pray for our church, pope and priests all the more and we pray for the understanding to see how this will be a good thing for the church- on top of the prayers that this will indeed be a good thing for the church.
I agree that there is much that the secular media will try to spin from the interview... but maybe it is getting them to pay more attention to Pope Francis... The following article may show some hope for the media.

This is certainly a headline that I never expected to (ever) see in the Los Angeles Times newspaper (Sept. 20, 2013). I believe that this headline and article certainly would never had been written if Pope Francis's interview had never been published (a few days earlier).

Pope Francis calls abortion a product of a 'throwaway culture'

www.latimes.com

Ed
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Sep 23rd 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: It just means that all things essential for each human's salvation are important.

Sodomy and fornications of all types were a HUGE issue in Christ's time on earth. Denying this, a person lays plain their lack of understanding of the history in Christ's time on earth and the bible also. Homosexual behavior alone is singled out as most grave, over and over again, as was adulterous behavior, yet those so disposed to defend it have found ways to cloud what is as clear as a sunny day. God help us and them.

Sins of the flesh are the largest category that offends God. It seems to me that this has always been the case.

Pope Francis is not sweeping it under the rug!!!
Amen! He is clearly acknowledging it in a more positive lite from what I read from his Article in the New York TImes. Clearly stating that he has hopes that you pray they have a change of heart. God gave us free will and they are allowed free will, in my opinion, we shall not hate these people who comitt this sin that we only pray they return their hearts and actions that follow Gods Gospel that is written in black & white. The confessional is not a place to be chastising in a negative tone this brings darkness. You must yes inform to teach about the Bible and what is written and just pray and shed positive lite of prayer with God Glorious Love to help those who are lost souls? heart theheart theheart theheart rosary Praying
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Sep 23rd 2013 new
I think the Pope is trying to provide us both permission and a path to actually live the Gospel. The pendulum often swings wide in both extremes before settling. So we have the clash between those whose worship and understanding are ordered to Christ's Divinity, which tends to put him farther away from us, makes him less accessible and more bound by rigid rules and protocols and the other end, focuses on Christ's humanity, making him more accessible and yet tends to sometimes be too lax, the middle ground is found in being able to recognize and focus on both Christ's divinity and his humanity. That requires some rules and protocol as well as warmth and welcoming and flexibility. This is most readily seen in the pastoral application of the rules. And, a shepherd pastors, Pope Francis is interested in shepherding his flock to a fuller experience of Christ through living the Gospel.
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Sep 23rd 2013 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: Pope Francis calls abortion a product of a 'throwaway culture'http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-pope-francis-abortion-20130920,0,2591672.story

Ed
What a bombshell from the man at the top! I love it!!! After so many thought he was dismissing core doctrine, he makes it plain as only he can.
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Sep 23rd 2013 new
(quote) John-971967 said: What a bombshell from the man at the top! I love it!!! After so many thought he was dismissing core doctrine, he makes it plain as only he can.
John,

Perhaps their (LA Times) next ground-breaking headline will be..... "THE POPE IS CATHOLIC !!!" - Stop the presses!
laughing

Ed
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Sep 23rd 2013 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: John,

Perhaps their (LA Times) next ground-breaking headline will be..... "THE POPE IS CATHOLIC !!!" - Stop the presses!


Ed
This one would really stop the presses next Wednesday: "Extra! Extra! Pope says: 40 Days For Life Kick Off Today!!!"
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Sep 24th 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: It would be best if CMers wait until more reliable sources than the main steam media (MSM) reports any thing about the Church or what the Pope may have said.

To the extent that what has been reported so far is accurate, I would agree with the Pope on this.

By that I mean, we here so much in Catholic media, comparatively rarely from the Pulpit, on these issues so that to outsiders from the Church as well as the MSM believe this is all we are about.

We have to face one simple fact, although it appears we are making progress on the issue of abortion, we are getting no where yet on the homosexual question. But we will never win these issues to a significant degree until we accomplish the main Mission of the Church, bringing more people to the knowledge of Christ in particular, God in His totality, and the message of salvation. Then and only then will our efforts on this issues bear fruit.

And let no one assume I am saying we should not push these issues. But we must succeed at the basic mission for our efforts on these specific issues to bear fruit.
Very well said Paul.---I believe this pope to be a wise and holy man.--His comments are extremely welcoming without compromising church teaching.
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Sep 24th 2013 new
Dear Patrick,

Hello good soul! What an exciting thread! I just wanted to check in with you after all the commentary to see if you had a chance to read that Pope's interview in its entirety? (Reposted: americamagazine.org)

I think it is the best approach to formulating a contextualized opinion on his position. That said, truly you and several others here are right: the media, the public, Hollywood, lukewarm Catholics and many others will make facile self-serving interpretations of the Holy Father's words. But this has always been the case. This also happened to Jesus (here including: John 2:20, John 6:60, Mt 16:21-23 and any number of times He was willfully misinterpreted or misunderstood...in saecula saeculorum...)

As has been rightly pointed out elsewhere on this thread, we need to, as much as possible, stay away from phrasing as: "I think what the Pope meant..." only to the extent that we are then engaging the straw man argument set up by the secular liberal media. The Pope's actual comments are very well documented, if less inclined to be appreciated by those unwilling to better understand his, and by extension of his authority as Vicar of Christ, the Church's position.

All over the HOLY Father's words (and here purposefully emphasizing his holiness) is the call to the conversion of all of God's people. We are a history of rising and falling...of running towards and away from Christ....but God broke into our history...interrupted that pattern and we are a people saved.

I think someone else already beautifully stated that we are a people in relationship...always in relationship.

From the Pope's interview:
"No one is saved alone, as an isolated individual, but God attracts us looking at the complex web of relationships that take place in the human community. God enters into this dynamic, this participation in the web of human relationships"

Yet the most important relationship is the individuals with Christ. Here Francis says explicitly, "...if a homosexual person [or any sinner, my emphasis] is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge...Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person [my emphasis]."

We can get into conversations about correcting a brother or sister who is in serious sin, which diverges into a back and forth about judgment and charity, etc. After all that is said and done, ultimately each person must engage Christ. It is Christ who saves and Christ who is at work in the priest, the nun, and (hopefully) the lay person with access to the internet and few minutes to burn at work...

The Pope goes on to describe his hopes for the proclamation of the gospel that "...focuses on the essentials, on the necessary things: this is also what fascinates and attracts more, what makes the heart burn, as it did for the disciples at Emmaus."

Yes! True! Because, ultimately Patrick, the good news is and always will be: a savior has been born to us (Lk 2:11) and the government will rest on His shoulders (Is 9:6) and He is made known in the breaking of the bread (Lk 24:35). In fellowship, in relationship, in breaking through the barrier of our own personal distaste for another's sin and breaking bread with them. Truly seeing Christ in them...loving their wounds and helping them heal.

We all do our part, in prayer, in preaching, in volunteering, in teaching and even in starting provocative threads that get us talking and engaging in our faith. biggrin But after the heat of debate tempers, and before the flames go out, let us take the Dominican approach and share the fruits of our contemplation. What a beautiful work: to bring a soul to Christ. This is Christ, this was the purpose of the incarnation. This is the "apostolic" part of the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church."

In Christ,
Leyden
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Sep 24th 2013 new
(quote) Leyden-904885 said: Dear Patrick,
Hello good soul! What an exciting thread! I just wanted to check in with you after all the commentary to see if you had a chance to read that Pope's interview in its entirety? (Reposted: http://americamagazine.org/pope-interview)
I think it is the best approach to formulating a contextualized opinion on his position. That said, truly you and several others here are right: the media, the public, Hollywood, lukewarm Catholics and many others will make facile self-serving interpretations of the Holy Father's words. But this has always been the case. This also happened to Jesus (here including: John 2:20, John 6:60, Mt 16:21-23 and any number of times He was willfully misinterpreted or misunderstood...in saecula saeculorum...)
As has been rightly pointed out elsewhere on this thread, we need to, as much as possible, stay away from phrasing as: "I think what the Pope meant..." only to the extent that we are then engaging the straw man argument set up by the secular liberal media. The Pope's actual comments are very well documented, if less inclined to be appreciated by those unwilling to better understand his, and by extension of his authority as Vicar of Christ, the Church's position.
All over the HOLY Father's words (and here purposefully emphasizing his holiness) is the call to the conversion of all of God's people. We are a history of rising and falling...of running towards and away from Christ....but God broke into our history...interrupted that pattern and we are a people saved.
I think someone else already beautifully stated that we are a people in relationship...always in relationship.
From the Pope's interview:"No one is saved alone, as an isolated individual, but God attracts us looking at the complex web of relationships that take place in the human community. God enters into this dynamic, this participation in the web of human relationships"
Yet the most important relationship is the individuals with Christ. Here Francis says explicitly, "...if a homosexual person [or any sinner, my emphasis] is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge...Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person [my emphasis]."
We can get into conversations about correcting a brother or sister who is in serious sin, which diverges into a back and forth about judgment and charity, etc. After all that is said and done, ultimately each person must engage Christ. It is Christ who saves and Christ who is at work in the priest, the nun, and (hopefully) the lay person with access to the internet and few minutes to burn at work...
The Pope goes on to describe his hopes for the proclamation of the gospel that "...focuses on the essentials, on the necessary things: this is also what fascinates and attracts more, what makes the heart burn, as it did for the disciples at Emmaus."
Yes! True! Because, ultimately Patrick, the good news is and always will be: a savior has been born to us (Lk 2:11) and the government will rest on His shoulders (Is 9:6) and He is made known in the breaking of the bread (Lk 24:35). In fellowship, in relationship, in breaking through the barrier of our own personal distaste for another's sin and breaking bread with them. Truly seeing Christ in them...loving their wounds and helping them heal.
We all do our part, in prayer, in preaching, in volunteering, in teaching and even in starting provocative threads that get us talking and engaging in our faith. But after the heat of debate tempers, and before the flames go out, let us take the Dominican approach and share the fruits of our contemplation. What a beautiful work: to bring a soul to Christ. This is Christ, this was the purpose of the incarnation. This is the "apostolic" part of the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church."
In Christ,Leyden
Leyden, once again, so articulately communicated. Where is the "like" button? lovestruck!
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Sep 24th 2013 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: Leyden, once again, so articulately communicated. Where is the "like" button?
Go to the top right of the message. Click on the thumbs up symbol.
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