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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Sep 25th 2013 new
(quote) Marge-938695 said: Okay, maybe I'm wrong here...but that last bit seems to me to fall into the category of "When she says 'no' she really means 'yes'."
No fair messing with a guy's head.
Hmm, an interesting first take, Marge. That's fair. But no, that's not what I mean/meant, nor does it read that way; it certainly shouldn't. Instead what I meant (as I think, should be meant) is to communicate a message that sex isn't necessarily bad, or she would not be opposed to sex in the context of marriage as taught by the Catholic Church, whose teaching is rooted in Christ. Sorry for the run-on but it's necessary...

In other words, "no means no" now because it's out of place between them now, but it could ONLY become a "yes" if discerned with Catholic clarity and in context of how God intends life to be lived between a man and a woman.

Kelsey could be the instrument to bring this young man's understanding to align with God's will without compromising herself, and not completely turn him away. He must do it freely; and, he must do the work. She must be willing to help him get it right.

It's up to him to seriously have a major life view adjustment, if he wants to have any chance with her. As long as he resists or rejects it, she must keep pushing back with a "no" - not under these circumstances - but "possibly" with the proper ones. This takes a strong woman! The odds are against her really. Would she find him worth all that sacrifice and self denial, while others more properly disposed may go by? She must be strong!!!

He will realize that he is not getting sex the wrong and shallow way, simply because there is much more to procreative acts than what he currently understands. Such men are seldom interested in really doing all that work and commit to the Catholic way of living.

However, once men really do get this and they commit to the Catholic way, well, it's a beautiful thing! Same goes for women, currently otherwise disposed.

So, as long as she does not redefine the reference or the context from that which I originally stated, and she sticks with the word and the deed, she will be fine. And if he wants to get it and much more, he will just have to close the obviously glaring gap and act and commit to the Catholic way of living.

Make sense?

Too complicated? Unwilling? If one says yes to these last two questions, then the only real leverage for Kelsey, or those in like circumstances, is to walk. No compromise; no "sampling" along the way.

I know this is possible. I think it's similar to a situation that my oldest had. They liked one another. Rules and expectations were made plain. Their hearts and intentions were true. the blueprint or script, if you will, were stuck with. He went through RCIA and converted, and then committed. Now, they are newlyweds :) I have a few pictures of them posted on my profile. I wish them a lifetime of happiness together.

I think that a "no" becomes a "yes" when the woman compromises true Catholic teaching and violates it in practice. She makes mockery of the faith. That is a no-no; it's a sin when done.
Sep 25th 2013 new
Kelsey, so you don't misunderstand my initial comment either. In essence you have to make sure that he does understand why "no sex" before Catholic marriage is so important to you. I appreciate your concern for him, and not wanting to hurt his feelings, but it has to work both ways. Him not getting, or possibly not respecting, your situation will hurt you too. Don't lend that to happen. Tell him he certainly is free to do what he wants, but for you sex outside of Catholic marriage is out of the question; it's not right in your view. Explain to him the beauty of the more full procreative view the Church presents for all humanity. As long as he is willing to listen, then keep explaining. In the meantime, you will get a lot more "facepalm" moments, trust me.
Sep 25th 2013 new
(quote) Jim-13836 said: You're going to say the same as you would say to a lukewarm Catholic. I respect you. I respect myself and more importantly I don't want to dishonor our Lord by doing anything that is reserved exclusively for married couples. I don't want to have casual sex. I want to make love and the way you do that is by committing to me in holy matrimony. I am saving myself for my spouse. I am worth the wait. And you stand your ground. If he persists cross him off your list.

That's an abbreviated version of what I would say and do. If he respects you enough to listen to that, great! Then we talk about converting a lukewarm Protestant into a diehard Catholic. If not, say I'm sorry and move on. If he persists he is not really a friend, imo.

Just my two cents.
Spot on, Jim! Well said.

Asking self: how did I miss your post on the first read of this thread?
Sep 25th 2013 new
(quote) Kelsey-802691 said: Actually, I know him really well. We've been friends for years. This is why I am befuddled as to his not understanding my views on things like premarital sex (which I know for a fact he thinks is not only acceptable, but expected in a dating relationship).
Just because someone has known you for years, that does not mean that they know what you believe, how you think, what your plans are for your future, what your IQ is, what your shoe size is, or anything else that you do not discuss on an ongoing regular basis. People make assumptions all the time, and assume that someone knows them, or assume that they know someone else when they really don't.

I assumed that a lot of the Catholic boys I grew up with understood and followed Catholic teaching on premarital sex and marriage. I was wrong. Most of them are no longer practicing Catholics, have cohabited, and some probably will never marry, as they have gone from one live-in relationship to another. Then people ask single Catholic ladies like me why we aren't married. Umm, I can't marry myself.
Sep 25th 2013 new
(quote) Angela-374523 said: Then people ask single Catholic ladies like me why we aren't married. Umm, I can't marry myself.
BA-hahaha!!!! Girl, that just made my day. laughing

Thank you so much to everyone for your wonderful advice. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the answer I'm getting is to put God first in this situation - to see this guy and myself through God's eyes, and make sure the way I treat both of us is in a manner that honors Him (capital H). To be strong in my resolve to commit to my knowledge of the Church's teaching on premarital relations.

You all rock! Praying hug
Sep 25th 2013 new
(quote) Kelsey-802691 said: Okay, so the tagline was *a little* inflammatory......

My good friend and musician colleague recently told me that he has a crush on me. I have always admired him and thought highly of him - he's smart, funny, handsome, and a great guy......

and he's a lukewarm (at best) Protestant.

Now, allow me to say that his being a lukewarm Protestant does not make him any more of a sinner than I am. We are all stained by Adam and Eve's choices in the garden. We all make bad decisions which separate us from Christ Jesus. HOWEVER, I don't think he fully understands the Catholic church's teachings on things like celibacy, birth control, and sex before marriage. I tried to explain this to him, and he was like "I still don't see why we can't date." I began to get frustrated, and said "Well, honestly, what's going to happen is we're going to date, and you're going to want to do physical stuff which makes me uncomfortable, and I'm going to say no, and you're going to get mad, and both our feelings are going to get hurt, and it's going to be a hot mess. Let's just not go there." He responded, "Wait, so you're saying you don't want to have sex with me?"


How do I remedy this situation so that I don't hurt him or lose a good friend?
Well I imagine you joined catholic match to find a good catholic man so don't give up!!!!

Also, dating someone outside your religious beliefs usually can create problems down the line. Also, do you want to risk losing the friendship?

all things to think about.....
Sep 25th 2013 new
What modern, liberal, mistranslation of the Bible did this Protestant friend of yours read anyway? Not to diminish the fact that Protestants have excluded themselves from sharing in the veritable treasure trove of theological masterworks (2,000+ years of it) by spurning the Deposit of Faith (which is the Church) I'm pretty sure that most Protestant translations of the Bible still contain Jesus' exhortation against adultery in Matthew 5: 28 in which it is said:

"But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart."

If lustfully looking upon a woman is tantamount to adultery, how are we to regard premarital sex? So I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that Protestants, even without our magisterial teaching are still obliged by their personal Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to observe the same vocation to unmarried chastity as Catholics are. I'm pretty sure this teaching is generally not up for debate, whether you're Catholic or Protestant.

This has red flags all over it. He is either ignorantly or obstinately sinful with regard to premarital sex.

I know because I dated a confused girl who was baptized Catholic but in her college years was constantly vacillating between Protestantism and Catholicism. So it was very similar to your plight. And believe me, it didn't end well. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't even consider going down this route if I were you. Someone who doesn't have his own relationship with God in order is just going to try to put up walls between you and your faith order to get closer to you. It doesn't matter how much he thinks that he cares about you, he may even mean well, but his conscience is disordered and malformed.
Sep 25th 2013 new
Your only response should be..."I will only marry a practicing Catholic who respects me,and my body as the temple of the Holy Ghost"
Sep 25th 2013 new
You tell it like it us.

When I was 26, and stationed in Cleveland, I met an outstanding Catholic woman I let get away. Maybe in 2013, you, at 26 in Cleveland might meet good Catholic women at Colleges such as Notre Dame in South Euclid or Ursuline? My ex-GF graduated from the now-defunct St. John's School of Nursing, but I understand Ursuline has an equivalent Nursing Program, and even has old St. John's School of Nursing records.

Checkout Notre Dame and Ursuline ...
Sep 25th 2013 new
(quote) Devan-877827 said: What modern, liberal, mistranslation of the Bible did this Protestant friend of yours read anyway? 
I think he is more a moralist who claims Jesus as his savior, honestly.
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