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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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Sep 25th 2013 new
(quote) Chris-589554 said: This OP and most of the replies has me shaking my head along with wondering "What are you thinking?"

First, I agree with Marge--give the guy a chance, he must not know you're beliefs. We all know the saying, What happens when you assume?

Here's my take. It was totally inappropriate for you to start the conversation about SEX. Why would you bring up sex to a casual MALE friend and assume he would want to have sex with you, or commit to you and marry you? Think about it--if he brought up sex right off the bat--how dumbfounded would you be? If you were interested in him and he immediately told you why he couldn't date you--because you were Catholic and he would never marry a Catholic, etc, etc. Do you see how inappropriate talking sex is before you even left the rehearsal? Talk about jumping to conclusions.

this is also ASSUMING that people stick to their thoughts, words, and actions and NEVER change no matter what. Thank God, and I sincerely mean this--thank God He made me in His image and is a merciful and forgiving God. I believe He knows we're capable of changing and bestows graces on us to help us. I'd be lost without that reassurance--His promise to Catholics and non-Catholics.

Go ahead and slam me, but, no wonder, there's no dating going on for the majority of CMers. Intolerance and lack of Christian Charity is such a turn off. This lends itself to another OP asking if posting in the Forums was not helpful in finding a mate. Please re-read your replies and look at them objectively. We all have houses with glass windows.

OK--I said what I needed to say.

I get what your saying Chris about assuming, but one thing I have 'noticed' after not dating for 20 + years is that dating is synonymous with sex today, especially if extends past several dates. The society at large expects it and assumes it, even amongst Christians and Catholics who are not 7/7. To not know that the average secular person will have sex as a general expectation to an ongoing dating relationship in today's world is IMO naive. I don't think she was entirely wrong to extrapolate.

That being said, she may very well be an opportunity for conversion by stating her beliefs and values in caring way. You are rt....thank God we have grace and free will to change and grow

Sep 25th 2013 new
Very true Tricia. I think Kelsey is and will continue to handle herself well. She seems like a very bright young lady to me. Her parents should be proud! And that young man that's interested better get with the learning curve!!! :)
Sep 25th 2013 new
Again, there's the assumption that this young man would pressure her into having sex. I stand by my words: it was inappropriate to, at first glance, bring up sex in a challenging manner. Let's change roles, would you like to have a man start off the time, the date, the F2F talking about sex--or whatever-- and putting pressure on you that you had to change. Again, you'd be shocked and say--What do you mean, you're going to have sex with me. You don't even know me!

In the Bible, our Saints, people we know, converts on this site, yes, even us--through God's grace they made a change in their lives--for the better. Maybe someone spent time with them and helped lead them down a different path. Someone in our daily lives influences us to be better human beings.
Let's not throw this young man out with the dishwater. And let's not ASSUME that this young lady can't stand by her convictions after a few dates.
I just find a lot of intolerance and unloving ways to those who are deemed "not good enough" less than "perfect" in their eyes. Jesus preached "love your neighbor as yourself" There is no greater commandment--right?

We need to live it, practice it, lead by example.

thanks for your input,

Sep 25th 2013 new
(quote) Kelsey-802691 said: I think he is more a moralist who claims Jesus as his savior, honestly.
You made a previous comment:
Actually, I know him really well. We've been friends for years. This is why I am befuddled as to his not understanding my views on things like premarital sex (which I know for a fact he thinks is not only acceptable, but expected in a dating relationship).

It seems that your intuition is probably right, and he isn't really trying to court you if you know he has experience with premarital sex. If he was really your friend, he would care about your values and respect them; having sex is not the purpose of dating.
I guess I don't understand some of the protestants around where I live that think they are already saved and can still act immorally; like it does no good to try to live with Christian principles.
Sep 25th 2013 new
The implication, me thinks, about this "pressuring" is just in your head. However, trust me, in the way Kelsey says he is (she knows him personally) you can be assured that he would try his best to persuade her. Look how many women are persuaded, generally speaking :)
Sep 25th 2013 new
Amen!!! Jim, well said!
Sep 26th 2013 new
(quote) Chris-589554 said: I just find a lot of intolerance and unloving ways to those who are deemed "not good enough" less than "perfect" in their eyes. Jesus preached "love your neighbor as yourself" There is no greater commandment--right?

We need to live it, practice it, lead by example.


I totally agree with what you're saying. I'm not pointing the finger at my friend in any way, or pretending that my sins are any less egregious than his. As I said in my original post, we are all stained irreversibly (save for Christ) thanks to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. However, when he said "Wait, you mean you DON'T want to have sex with me?", he was more incredulous than anything else. The implication of the conversation (and the conversation which followed, but that I didn't write down to save time), was that he was shocked that I was choosing celibacy before marriage. When I told him that I was considering religious vocation in my earlier years, his response was, "But wouldn't you want to have sex?!?!?!......"

While we have been good friends for years, the topic of our faith rarely came up in context. He seemed content with his faith, and I did not want to push him on the subject - rather, wait for him to ask me about God and then gently nudge him in the right direction (Matthew 7:6, Matthew 22:36-40).

I am not judging my friend or his faith. I am, however, being realistic about big issues that would come up in dating him. It is virtually impossible to date in this world for people my generation without sex being an expectation of a boy/girlfriend. Sad, but true. The only exception to that rule has been religious Protestants or Catholics. I believe the phrase a different ("Catholic") guy used was - after I declined to accompany him back to his place after our first date - "Well, f [orget] you. If I can't get it here, I'll go somewhere else."

I hope this clarifies my situation. Thanks so much for your input.
Sep 26th 2013 new
Lukewarmers risk becoming godspittle rather than skywalkers.
Sep 28th 2013 new
(quote) Jim-13836 said: You're going to say the same as you would say to a lukewarm Catholic. I respect you. I respect myself and more importantly I don't want to dishonor our Lord by doing anything that is reserved exclusively for married couples. I don't want to have casual sex. I want to make love and the way you do that is by committing to me in holy matrimony. I am saving myself for my spouse. I am worth the wait. And you stand your ground. If he persists cross him off your list.

That's an abbreviated version of what I would say and do. If he respects you enough to listen to that, great! Then we talk about converting a lukewarm Protestant into a diehard Catholic. If not, say I'm sorry and move on. If he persists he is not really a friend, imo.

Just my two cents.
wave heartbravo Jimbo heart wave
Sep 28th 2013 new
(quote) Kelsey-802691 said:   It is virtually impossible to date in this world for people my generation without sex being an expectation of a boy/girlfriend. Sad, but true. 
As it was for our generation. The only difference is, people don't seem to be influenced by the face that there are more venereal diseases now than thirty years ago.
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