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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

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Nov 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Michelle-860764 said: I heard this SSPX is some sort of cult, does anyone have information on this?

I would HATE to get involved with something that goes against the Chruch's teachings or our beautiful new Pope Francis. Please help!
Michelle,

If you have an interest in the Tridentine Mass as well as the homilies of the type your grandparents heard, check out the FSSP and the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest; they both have their websites which give their locations around the world.

And both are fully within the Church's fold.

www.fssp.org

www.institute-christ-king.org

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Nov 22nd 2013 new
everything I have ever read, indicated that it wasn't accepted by the church.
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Nov 22nd 2013 new
Well, I won't beat this dead horse other than to say that I sincerely wish folks would try to understand them and their circumstances, rather than to simply wright them off as being something unholy.

It really is a tragedy, as they easily some of the most devout folks in the faith.


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Nov 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Tom-956451 said: Well, I won't beat this dead horse other than to say that I sincerely wish folks would try to understand them and their circumstances, rather than to simply wright them off as being something unholy.

It really is a tragedy, as they easily some of the most devout folks in the faith.


Tom, their circumstances are that they will not come into full union with the Catholic Church; we sincerely wish they would.

Until they do that, they are cannot possibly be considered devout in the Faith by any stretch of the imagination, regardless of their outward appearances.

And yes, it really is a tragedy.


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Nov 22nd 2013 new
(quote) William-607613 said: Tom, their circumstances are that they will not come into full union with the Catholic Church; we sincerely wish they would.

Until they do that, they are cannot possibly be considered devout in the Faith by any stretch of the imagination, regardless of their outward appearances.

And yes, it really is a tragedy.


Cardinal Burke would clearly disagree with you, my brother:

www.youtube.com

Let me be clear, I am not denying their dis-communion with Rome, that is no secret. But as to their future relationship, it takes a little digging, but one can find out exactly what has been done to improve it. And it is improving, slowly.

But I absolutely don't think anyone should be afraid of learning about them. Saying things like "stay away and have no knowledge" is just wrong. I guarantee you, most Novus Ordo American Catholics know more about multiple Protestant faiths than they do the SSPX.
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Nov 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Tom-956451 said: Cardinal Burke would clearly disagree with you, my brother:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRcoaytPCa0

Let me be clear, I am not denying their dis-communion with Rome, that is no secret. But as to their future relationship, it takes a little digging, but one can find out exactly what has been done to improve it. And it is improving, slowly.

But I absolutely don't think anyone should be afraid of learning about them. Saying things like "stay away and have no knowledge" is just wrong. I guarantee you, most Novus Ordo American Catholics know more about multiple Protestant faiths than they do the SSPX.
Tom,

The question from Michelle on the subject was not one of simply wanting to learn about the SSPX; she mentioned a possible interest in becoming involved with the group: ("I would HATE to get involved with something that goes against the Chruch's teachings or our beautiful new Pope Francis. Please help!")

Those of us who know about the SSPX's lack of standing in the Catholic Church simply pointed out to Michelle this fact: They are not recognized by the Church.

It took you three posts to even acknowledge their "dis-communion" with Rome, which is not a clear answer to someone asking for help on the subject.

No one here is suggesting that Michelle or anyone else should be afraid of learning about the SSPX; we're stating quite forcefully that the group has no standing in the Catholic Church, regardless of how devout the members may seem to be.

We ALL hope members of the SSPX return to the Church.


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Nov 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Tom-956451 said: Cardinal Burke would clearly disagree with you, my brother:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRcoaytPCa0

Let me be clear, I am not denying their dis-communion with Rome, that is no secret. But as to their future relationship, it takes a little digging, but one can find out exactly what has been done to improve it. And it is improving, slowly.

But I absolutely don't think anyone should be afraid of learning about them. Saying things like "stay away and have no knowledge" is just wrong. I guarantee you, most Novus Ordo American Catholics know more about multiple Protestant faiths than they do the SSPX.
Two things.

First, nothing Cardinal Burke said contradicts what William said.

Secondly,the SSPX, as a group, have actually been moving further away. Pope Benedict went as far as possible to bring them back. There was no move from the SSPX.

Talks continue, but they have been and are fruitless. The SSPX refuses to obey.

As long as the situation continues as is, their Masses and all their Sacraments remain illicit. Since they are illicit, the the exercise of any priestly function is sinful. And is an abuse of the Liturgical and Sacraments Rites. The very things the SSPX accuses the Church of doing.

As Cardinal Burke pointed out, it is a sad situation.

And as long as the situation continues they are de facto in schism even though the church has refrained from formally saying so.


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Nov 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Using the word "cult" applied to any religious movement is a problematic thing.

Today the word has mostly negative connotations. But the Church itself often uses the word in very positive ways. For example, the Sacred vessels used in the celebration of the Mass are correctly referred to a Objects of cult.

Whoever used it in describing the SSPX obviously meant it to be derogatory. In the negative sense like that, I would think that the SSPX is not a cult.

It is, however, a movement with absolutely no canonical standing in the Church. Although it has not been formally pronounced as being in schism by the Church, it is, as the term is used in the language of diplomacy, a de facto schismatic organization. That is, that although they recognize the duly elected Pope as the Head of the Church, they do so only on their own terms, dissenting in some essential ways from the teachings and discipline of the Church.

The Vatican continues to negotiate with them to bring them into full Communion. But they appear to be pulling further and further away. Some parts of them, the FSSP, have actually returned. Other parts of it have split off and fallen into virtually heresy, the sede vacantis people.

In my opinion, Rome is wasting its time and should formally pronounce them in schism and wash their hands of them.


Thank God you are not Pope! Lol! I mean really Paul,you have very little charity!There are thousands of souls at stake here.Do you even care about their salvation.The situation is complex.It's not even worth it to descend in to arguments with you.You clearly have no patience for anyone who disagrees with you.Yet the cult of the Novus Ordo and all of the Clergy who lead souls astray from the True teachings of the Catholic Faith! What about them? Oh ,no ,wait,they are in good standing with their Bishop! Talk about not in Communion with the Catholic Church! Spare me buddy!
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Nov 22nd 2013 new
Michelle asked an honest question, seeking some clarification and information on the SSPX. Neither she, nor anyone else, asked to see a verbal punching contest full of inaccuracies and hyberbole. The Novus Ordo are not a group. The Novus Ordo is a Mass. If you have facts to refute something that another poster has posted, then present those facts, and present the sources from which you have drawn the facts. Name-calling and distortion is counterproductive.
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Nov 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Two things.

First, nothing Cardinal Burke said contradicts what William said.

Secondly,the SSPX, as a group, have actually been moving further away. Pope Benedict went as far as possible to bring them back. There was no move from the SSPX.

Talks continue, but they have been and are fruitless. The SSPX refuses to obey.

As long as the situation continues as is, their Masses and all their Sacraments remain illicit. Since they are illicit, the the exercise of any priestly function is sinful. And is an abuse of the Liturgical and Sacraments Rites. The very things the SSPX accuses the Church of doing.

As Cardinal Burke pointed out, it is a sad situation.

And as long as the situation continues they are de facto in schism even though the church has refrained from formally saying so.


They are not in de facto Schism Paul.Last time I checked you were not made Pope.
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