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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Nov 19th 2013 new
(quote) Barbara-863769 said: if two people have enough psychological development, this passive aspect of communication can happen over the telephone lines; that is, without direct physical presence. I think that the tones and other reactions of the listener can sometimes be transmitted back to the speaking party in a way that makes the speaker sense that his message has reached the passive listener in a way that stirred up a inner reaction.

Yes, voice! Born with no eyes, my Blind daughter,a young adult, "sees" others' demeanor, "reads" intent, and perceives "charm", through voice. Print and text are totally meaningless. She has NLP no light perception, sees no outlines,her eyeballs never grew in utero.

She is indeed highly developed in the desire to "know" each person behind their voice, and as you probably know, she has a keen voice recognition. However, her intended and focused listening paint!s a detailed picture of each person she encounters. No "sixth sense"I see how actively engaged she is in her silent listening to conversation all AROUND her. Even if she is simply a bystandershe just stands or sits so still and so happy just to listen. If someone makes an observation such as, "Gee, Joan seems really different today. Wonder whassup?" My Blind daughter pipes up "Yes, she is really scared in her voiceis she ok (meaning physical wellness)?" She also will say things likeshe has a "sweet mouth". In her Third World birth country this means that someone is deceptively, if not wickedly deceitful with their words. My deceased husband always said that THIS daughter saw more (quantitatively and qualitatively) than anyone he had met. The Blind do see!

Just fwiw--One of my adult sons read somewhere (online?) that recent brain research is discovering that the sight portion of the brain in those born with NO visionnot those who lose vision due to trauma, age,disease, or injury) the vision section of the brain is actually NO dormant nor UN developedand that perhaps tactile/emotional/possibly different audio(???) sensory inputmay indeed be stored/stimulating development thereWow! So the Blind do see in other format?

Soall of this means WE here need to get to those phones, and start talking instead of typing! I hope
Is that what you meant, John?

'Lliza Do...Little

Your blind daughter's "seeing" others is an interesting piece of evidence backing what I thought was the case.

Regarding the question about reaching for the phones to cull the phonies by calling, I'd say that it's still fine to see whether he's your type by typing back and forth until the typing evidence tips decisively to favorable or not.
Nov 30th 2013 new

passive[ pas-iv ]

adjective
1. not reacting visibly to something that might be expected to produce manifestations of an emotion or feeling.
2. not participating readily or actively; inactive: a passive member of a committee.
3. not involving visible reaction or active participation: to play a passive role.
4. inert or quiescent.
5. influenced, acted upon, or affected by some external force, cause, or agency; being the object of action rather than causing action (active).
6. receiving or characterized by the reception of impressions or influences from external sources.
7. produced or caused by an external agency.
8. receiving, enduring, or submitting without resistance: a passive hypnotic subject.
9. noting or pertaining to a construction similar to this in meaning, as English He is carried (active).
10. inactive, especially under conditions in which chemical activity is to be expected.
11. (of a metal) treated so as to impart impassivity.
12. of or pertaining to certain unhealthy but dormant conditions; inactive, as opposed to active or spontaneous.
13. designed to relay signals without electronic devices: a passive communications satellite.
14. (of a solar heating system) accumulating and distributing solar heat without the aid of machinery.


passive[ pas-iv ]


adjective


1. not reacting visibly to something that might be expected to produce manifestations of an emotion or feeling.

2. not participating readily or actively; inactive: a passive member of a committee.

3. not involving visible reaction or active participation: to play a passive role.

4. inert or quiescent.

5. influenced, acted upon, or affected by some external force, cause, or agency; being the object of action rather than causing action (active).

6. receiving or characterized by the reception of impressions or influences from external sources.

7. produced or caused by an external agency.

8. receiving, enduring, or submitting without resistance: a passive hypnotic subject.

9. noting or pertaining to a construction similar to this in meaning, as English He is carried (active).

10. inactive, especially under conditions in which chemical activity is to be expected.

11. (of a metal) treated so as to impart impassivity.

12. of or pertaining to certain unhealthy but dormant conditions; inactive, as opposed to active or spontaneous.

13. designed to relay signals without electronic devices: a passive communications satellite.

14. (of a solar heating system) accumulating and distributing solar heat without the aid of machinery.


Above is the definition from dictionary.com. I think what is throwing me off in this discussion is that passivity is being used to describe what is needed to really hear someone, whereas the word itself is defined as unable to evoke "emotion or response."
The word I think makes more sense in this situation is perception. A woman typically is more perceptive than men because of the way she is wired. We care for babies that can't speak so we learn the difference in their cries, or notice their actions and expressions. Can a man learn this by being passive? I don't think so. He would have to listen intently, be sensitive to body language, tone and have a familiarity with whom he is talking to in order to make sense of the unspoken.
This is an area where couples get into trouble. A wife may see her husband at leisure, watching a show and unwinding from his day. Assuming she has his attention because he asks about her day when she walks in, she rambles on about the kids, the co-worker or her parents. He hears her, and responds with a way to possibly remedy the situation, but he "feels" no emotion. Does he care? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe what he is thinking is he just wants dinner. He is passive, but not receptive. What he doesn't pick up on is his wife's need for someone to tell her she is doing a good job, that all those things people are saying would go away if they took the time to know her, acknowledge how hard it is to see her parents age...
Perception, I believe, can be learned through experience, but only if it is sought.
Nov 30th 2013 new

passive[ pas-iv ]

adjective
1. not reacting visibly to something that might be expected to produce manifestations of an emotion or feeling.
2. not participating readily or actively; inactive: a passive member of a committee.
3. not involving visible reaction or active participation: to play a passive role.
4. inert or quiescent.
5. influenced, acted upon, or affected by some external force, cause, or agency; being the object of action rather than causing action (active).
6. receiving or characterized by the reception of impressions or influences from external sources.
7. produced or caused by an external agency.
8. receiving, enduring, or submitting without resistance: a passive hypnotic subject.
9. noting or pertaining to a construction similar to this in meaning, as English He is carried (active).
10. inactive, especially under conditions in which chemical activity is to be expected.
11. (of a metal) treated so as to impart impassivity.
12. of or pertaining to certain unhealthy but dormant conditions; inactive, as opposed to active or spontaneous.
13. designed to relay signals without electronic devices: a passive communications satellite.
14. (of a solar heating system) accumulating and distributing solar heat without the aid of machinery.

Above is the definition from dictionary.com. I think what is throwing me off in this discussion is that passivity is being used to describe what is needed to really hear someone, whereas the word itself is defined as unable to evoke "emotion or response."
The word I think makes more sense in this situation is perception. A woman typically is more perceptive than men because of the way she is wired. We care for babies that can't speak so we learn the difference in their cries, or notice their actions and expressions. Can a man learn this by being passive? I don't think so. He would have to listen intently, be sensitive to body language, tone and have a familiarity with whom he is talking to in order to make sense of the unspoken.
This is an area where couples get into trouble. A wife may see her husband at leisure, watching a show and unwinding from his day. Assuming she has his attention because he asks about her day when she walks in, she rambles on about the kids, the co-worker or her parents. He hears her, and responds with a way to possibly remedy the situation, but he "feels" no emotion. Does he care? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe what he is thinking is he just wants dinner. He is passive, but not receptive. What he doesn't pick up on is his wife's need for someone to tell her she is doing a good job, that all those things people are saying would go away if they took the time to know her, acknowledge how hard it is to see her parents age...
Perception, I believe, can be learned through experience, but only if it is sought.
Nov 30th 2013 new
(quote) Michael-780154 said: But wait! So many women here never reply!

If you're in a relationship, say so (in your profile). Otherwise, we guys expect you're on here for the same reason we are and expect a response.. Ladies, it is rude to not reply when a man has taken the time and thought to write you a message.

Just my $0.02.
Michael:

That is simply not true. SOME people might consider it rude but in terms of what is acceptable in online communication it should generally not be considered rude if someone does not respond when they are not interested. Also the possible unintended consequences of responding even when you are not interested in someone is a major factor in why people often respond. You should check out our online dating guide it has many useful tips. www.catholicmatch.com
Nov 30th 2013 new
(quote) Brian-278516 said: Michael:

That is simply not true. SOME people might consider it rude but in terms of what is acceptable in online communication it should generally not be considered rude if someone does not respond when they are not interested. Also the possible unintended consequences of responding even when you are not interested in someone is a major factor in why people often respond. You should check out our online dating guide it has many useful tips. http://www.catholicmatch.com/institute/resources/online-dating-guide/
I strongly disagree. Not responding to an initial inquiry if one is able to do so (i. e. not in traction or comatose in a hospital bed) is simply rude, disgraceful, ungentlemanly, unladylike and un-Christian. Even if an initial inquiry falls into one of the above categories, a simply, "No, thanks, I'm not interested, God bless you in your search," is the bare minimum that a human being owes to another human being. I really don't think this is a matter of opinion either-- it's basic Christian charity.
Dec 4th 2013 new
(quote) Kathy-635104 said:

passive[ pas-iv ]

adjective1. not reacting visibly to something that might be expected to produce manifestations of an emotion or feeling.2. not participating readily or actively; inactive: a passive member of a committee.3. not involving visible reaction or active participation: to play a passive role.4. inert or quiescent.5. influenced, acted upon, or affected by some external force, cause, or agency; being the object of action rather than causing action (active).6. receiving or characterized by the reception of impressions or influences from external sources.7. produced or caused by an external agency.8. receiving, enduring, or submitting without resistance: a passive hypnotic subject.9. noting or pertaining to a construction similar to this in meaning, as English He is carried (active).10. inactive, especially under conditions in which chemical activity is to be expected.11. (of a metal) treated so as to impart impassivity.12. of or pertaining to certain unhealthy but dormant conditions; inactive, as opposed to active or spontaneous.13. designed to relay signals without electronic devices: a passive communications satellite.14. (of a solar heating system) accumulating and distributing solar heat without the aid of machinery.


passive[ pas-iv ]


adjective


1. not reacting visibly to something that might be expected to produce manifestations of an emotion or feeling.

2. not participating readily or actively; inactive: a passive member of a committee.

3. not involving visible reaction or active participation: to play a passive role.

4. inert or quiescent.

5. influenced, acted upon, or affected by some external force, cause, or agency; being the object of action rather than causing action (active).

6. receiving or characterized by the reception of impressions or influences from external sources.

7. produced or caused by an external agency.

8. receiving, enduring, or submitting without resistance: a passive hypnotic subject.

9. noting or pertaining to a construction similar to this in meaning, as English He is carried (active).

10. inactive, especially under conditions in which chemical activity is to be expected.

11. (of a metal) treated so as to impart impassivity.

12. of or pertaining to certain unhealthy but dormant conditions; inactive, as opposed to active or spontaneous.

13. designed to relay signals without electronic devices: a passive communications satellite.

14. (of a solar heating system) accumulating and distributing solar heat without the aid of machinery.


Above is the definition from dictionary.com. I think what is throwing me off in this discussion is that passivity is being used to describe what is needed to really hear someone, whereas the word itself is defined as unable to evoke "emotion or response."
The word I think makes more sense in this situation is perception. A woman typically is more perceptive than men because of the way she is wired. We care for babies that can't speak so we learn the difference in their cries, or notice their actions and expressions. Can a man learn this by being passive? I don't think so. He would have to listen intently, be sensitive to body language, tone and have a familiarity with whom he is talking to in order to make sense of the unspoken.
This is an area where couples get into trouble. A wife may see her husband at leisure, watching a show and unwinding from his day. Assuming she has his attention because he asks about her day when she walks in, she rambles on about the kids, the co-worker or her parents. He hears her, and responds with a way to possibly remedy the situation, but he "feels" no emotion. Does he care? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe what he is thinking is he just wants dinner. He is passive, but not receptive. What he doesn't pick up on is his wife's need for someone to tell her she is doing a good job, that all those things people are saying would go away if they took the time to know her, acknowledge how hard it is to see her parents age...
Perception, I believe, can be learned through experience, but only if it is sought.

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for including all of the definitions of "passive". My understanding of the word was never so complete as this list. I saw "passive" to mean what's in definitions 5 and 6.

First I'll reply to this portion of your message.

"I think what is throwing me off in this discussion is that passivity is being used to describe what is needed to really hear someone, whereas the word itself is defined as unable to evoke "emotion or response."

In the opening of this topic, I mentioned that there might not be any term that meant exactly what I intended. The word, "passive", might be close. At this point in the discussion, I now see that I should have started this topic by just saying that I wanted to talk about something (or some things) that were somewhat different from what comes to mind when we think of the word, "action" and then I should have given some examples of these aspects of human relationships that are different from, or more than just, "action". I could have said that stopping to hear what someone else says is at least a less active form of action than talking. I could have asked people to consider how allowing oneself to become known by some others has a passive and not just a purely active side to it. I could have added that accepting the love offered by another is more passive than is the giving of love.

With these examples as a background, I could then ask you to imagine trying to develop a relationship with a man who had all of good active dimensions, but lacked the more passive ones that I just mentioned. He talks in a friendly, sociable way, but has never learned to listen. He never holds still long enough in any sense so that you see to some extent who he really is and get to know him because at least parts of his real self are always hidden behind his barrage of good acts. He performs helpful, kind and loving actions for you, but he is uncomfortable in being on the receiving end of love. As I describe it, this man is deficient on the more passive side.

Second, I'll say a few things about this part of your commentary.

"The word I think makes more sense in this situation is perception".

I think that you are correct to bring it up as something that is extremely important if a relationship is ever to develop and as something that is partially passive. I think that a whole lot could be written about perception in this context, but that is beyond me. Maybe others can take up the subject.

Now doesn't all of this make you wish that you could cook dinner while being passive? mischievous

Not sure that passive pasta would pass muster, eyebrow

John

Dec 4th 2013 new
(quote) Andrew-290721 said: I strongly disagree. Not responding to an initial inquiry if one is able to do so (i. e. not in traction or comatose in a hospital bed) is simply rude, disgraceful, ungentlemanly, unladylike and un-Christian. Even if an initial inquiry falls into one of the above categories, a simply, "No, thanks, I'm not interested, God bless you in your search," is the bare minimum that a human being owes to another human being. I really don't think this is a matter of opinion either-- it's basic Christian charity.

Maybe it's just me, but "No thanks, I'm not interested," smacks of rudeness. I actually prefer no response if there is no interest, unless of course we've already been corresponding and one or both parties determines that there is no further interest. In this case, suddenly disappearing, I would consider rude.

So, ladies, if I write to you and you're not interested, please ignore me!

God Bless!

Michael


Dec 4th 2013 new
(quote) John-184825 said:

 "..accepting the love offered by another is more passive than is the giving of love.

With these examples as a background, I could then ask you to imagine trying to develop a relationship with a man who had all of good active dimensions, but lacked the more passive ones that I just mentioned. He talks in a friendly, sociable way, but has never learned to listen. He never holds still long enough in any sense so that you see to some extent who he really is and get to know him because at least parts of his real self are always hidden behind his barrage of good acts. He performs helpful, kind and loving actions for you, but he is uncomfortable in being on the receiving end of love. As I describe it, this man is deficient on the more passive side.


Re: receiving end of love

Accepting and receiving requires capability and preparation.I think that's fair to say about human interactions.
The soul, heart, and mind has been "readied" to mature love: tilled, softened, enriched over time. biggrin
As in HIS parable: some seed falls on rocky soil, some falls on thin soil, but when seed falls on good soil-ta-dah!
In human relationships, one can offer love to hardened hearts,to flash in the pan hearts, but if one finds a good heartvoila! lovestruck!

Now I wish I could come up with a "word play" on essential nutrients in dating scratchchin
but I'm drawing blanks wide eyed


:




Dec 5th 2013 new
(quote) Barbara-863769 said: Re: receiving end of love

Accepting and receiving requires capability and preparation.I think that's fair to say about human interactions.
The soul, heart, and mind has been "readied" to mature love: tilled, softened, enriched over time.
As in HIS parable: some seed falls on rocky soil, some falls on thin soil, but when seed falls on good soil-ta-dah!
In human relationships, one can offer love to hardened hearts,to flash in the pan hearts, but if one finds a good heartvoila!

Now I wish I could come up with a "word play" on essential nutrients in dating
but I'm drawing blanks


:




You wrote: "Accepting and receiving requires capability and preparation.I think that's fair to say about human interactions."

One point that I think is important here is that (1) most people agree that it takes a lot of practicing or preparation to become good at performing actions whether those actions be heavily physical such as skillful basketball playing or spiritual such as acts of kindness; but (2), it has never occurred to them that accepting or receiving requires any form of practice or preparation because no effort is involved in accepting or receiving and all the effort is on the side of the party who is offering something to be accepted or received.

In turn this means that the person who is poor at accepting and receiving may never even get so far in the analysis of his defect to see it as a lack of something other than a lack of action. He might sense that something is wrong, but he will more likely lurch into some kind of action as the corrective measure rather than relax and enter the more passive mode needed to accept and receive.


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