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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Nov 26th 2013 new
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
EVANGELII GAUDIUM
OF THE HOLY FATHER
FRANCIS

www.vatican.va
Nov 26th 2013 new
www.churchmilitant.tv

Pope Francis clarifies his support for a Traditional view of Vatican 2 and the Faith in general.


Nov 26th 2013 new
(quote) Mark-642218 said: http://www.churchmilitant.tv/platform/index.php?vidID=vort-2013-11-26

Pope Francis clarifies his support for a Traditional view of Vatican 2 and the Faith in general.


Mark's link works only for those with CMTV premium accounts. I believe this is the episode of The Vortex he is linking to:

youtu.be


Nov 27th 2013 new
Thanks, Larry for your posts. You have given good evidence for what I believe on a gut level. Once again the Holy Spirit has vouchsafed to grant us a blessed leader.
Nov 27th 2013 new
Hang on to the Rock Gerald, the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
Nov 27th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: True. But it is not always the teacher's fault the instruction is ineffective: sometimes some of the students simply don't want to learn.

There are some who appear to be looking for any excuse to criticize him and if they truly don't understand it is often for lack of making even the slightest effort.

Sadly, some who see themselves as traditionalists are in some ways just as, if not more, modernist than those they criticize.

biggrin
Dec 3rd 2013 new
Does anybody here have the answer to the question: Is the canonization of a saint an infallible decision? What if Pope John Paul II was canonized? Those of us who question his more liberal decisions would be scandalized.
Dec 3rd 2013 new
Judy,

As I understand it, canonization is a recognition that a person had lived a saintly life, was interceding for the living, and was a useful model for those seeking holiness and grace. In particular, it's not a claim that every action the person took was perfect, nor that every homily he gave was infallibly correct.

To take an extreme case, Robert Bellarmine S.J. was a 16th Century bishop who, amidst other great accomplishments, also condemned G. Bruno to burn at the stake for heresy. (Bruno had advocated a heliocentric theory of the solar system, and further suggested that our sun was just one of many stars.) Bellarmine was canonized by Pope Pius IX, indeed he'd been pronounced a Doctor of the Church, but that's not to suggest that the 20th Century Church had come to view the murder of heretics as righteous.

History may come to see John Paul II as a man with failings, and perhaps doctrine will advance and recognize errors in his writings, but nobody denies that he allowed the Spirit to move him to accomplish great things for the Church.

Peace rest on you today, and throughout this Advent season.
Dec 3rd 2013 new
(quote) Judy-579799 said: Does anybody here have the answer to the question: Is the canonization of a saint an infallible decision? What if Pope John Paul II was canonized? Those of us who question his more liberal decisions would be scandalized.
Can you please name one questionable decision John Paul II made and the basis or authority you used for judging it questionable.
Dec 3rd 2013 new
(quote) Chris-930705 said: To take an extreme case, Robert Bellarmine S.J. was a 16th Century bishop who, amidst other great accomplishments, also condemned G. Bruno to burn at the stake for heresy. (Bruno had advocated a heliocentric theory of the solar system, and further suggested that our sun was just one of many stars.) Bellarmine was canonized by Pope Pius IX, indeed he'd been pronounced a Doctor of the Church, but that's not to suggest that the 20th Century Church had come to view the murder of heretics as righteous.

History may come to see John Paul II as a man with failings, and perhaps doctrine will advance and recognize errors in his writings, but nobody denies that he allowed the Spirit to move him to accomplish great things for the Church.

Peace rest on you today, and throughout this Advent season.
Cardinal Bellarmine did not condemn Bruno to death.

He sat on the panel that declared him to be a heretic but had no direct hand in the death sentence.

Heresy was a crime subject to the death penalty under civil law. It was the civil law under which he was condemned to death.

You could argue that Bellarmine's judging him to be a heretic led to his death. But he did not actually condemn him.
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