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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Dec 14th 2013 new
(quote) Mary-1034540 said: We are each entitled to our respective opinions however, it is useful to acknowledge that there is a difference between reasoned debate and inflammatory rhetoric. I choose to follow the lead of our Holy Father and ask, "Who am I to judge?" Nobody can force you to be Catholic or anything else. One must then ask, is it our job to try and enforce one's own sense of morality on anyone else? Is it not our job to be the best Christian and Catholic human example of a faith filled life we can be? Does that include reinforcing fear and hateful prejudices? All mean well I am sure but as one who spends the majority of my life with the sick, suffering and wounded, I therefore must study how people come to be afflicted in one way or another in order to help them and on the matter of gender preference - is not a choice anymore than it is a choice for a given person to be heterosexual. God creates us all and is it not our challenge to figure out how to understand and hopefully accept the variations in his Creation.
I make a plea for empathy for all of God's Children. One can discuss the struggles of the matter without resorting to giving space to the rantings of a pedophile organization. How can anyone in good conscience, consider inclusion of anything that relates to NAMBLA as appropriate for this site or any other- it is to spread a toxic poison. My opinion to be sure. I believe that we will accomplish much more through love and compassion than we will through expressions of fear and loathing of others. I will leave this topic now with one final question: Indeed, did not Jesus teach us to Love thy neighbor as thyself?
Mary, we can all agree with your sentiment of compassion for all good and fallen people. It is quite another thing to tolerate abstract evil. We are in the middle of a spiritual war and tolerating the enemy, not only sends a signal that it is OK, but allows the enemy to gain ground. All it requires for evil to triumph is that good men (and women) do nothing!
Dec 14th 2013 new
(quote) Mary-1034540 said: We are each entitled to our respective opinions however, it is useful to acknowledge that there is a difference between reasoned debate and inflammatory rhetoric. I choose to follow the lead of our Holy Father and ask, "Who am I to judge?" Nobody can force you to be Catholic or anything else. One must then ask, is it our job to try and enforce one's own sense of morality on anyone else? Is it not our job to be the best Christian and Catholic human example of a faith filled life we can be? Does that include reinforcing fear and hateful prejudices? All mean well I am sure but as one who spends the majority of my life with the sick, suffering and wounded, I therefore must study how people come to be afflicted in one way or another in order to help them and on the matter of gender preference - is not a choice anymore than it is a choice for a given person to be heterosexual. God creates us all and is it not our challenge to figure out how to understand and hopefully accept the variations in his Creation.
I make a plea for empathy for all of God's Children. One can discuss the struggles of the matter without resorting to giving space to the rantings of a pedophile organization. How can anyone in good conscience, consider inclusion of anything that relates to NAMBLA as appropriate for this site or any other- it is to spread a toxic poison. My opinion to be sure. I believe that we will accomplish much more through love and compassion than we will through expressions of fear and loathing of others. I will leave this topic now with one final question: Indeed, did not Jesus teach us to Love thy neighbor as thyself?
"I will leave this topic now with one final question: Indeed, did not Jesus teach us to Love thy neighbor as thyself? "

Really Mary I do not believe that anyone on this website has missed that message. The problem is that UP UNTIL RECENTLY PEDOPHILIA COULD BE LEGALLY TREATED BECAUSE IT WAS CATEGORIZED AS A SICKNESS. NOW IT IS CATEGORIZED AS SEXUAL ORIENTATION. NOW THAT PEDOPHILIA HAS BEEN NORMALIZED AND IT IS ONLY A DISORDER IF AND WHEN PEDOPHILES ACT ON THAT WICKEDNESS, HOW DO YOU CONVINCE SOMEONE WHO HAS THOSE EVIL DESIRES THEY NEED HELP? WHERE IS THE LOVE IN DENYING SOMEONE TREATMENT FOR THIS PROBLEM SO THEY DO NOT HURT A CHILD AND LETTING THEM FESTER IN THEIR SICKNESS?

God blessed us humans with three great powers. the first power is the thought. The second power which is greater than the first is the thought expressed through word that is spoken or written. And the third which is the greatest of the three powers is the action which is the result of the first and second powers I have just spoken of.

Now with that being said I to am leaving this VERY SAD topic but not without asking you this question. "HOW CAN ANYONE EXPECT A PEDOPHILE NOT TO ACT ON THEIR FLESHLY DESIRES WHEN IT IS OK IN THEIR MIND AND HAS BEEN WRITTEN AS BEING NORMAL?" eyebrow
Dec 14th 2013 new

Dear Mary

I mentioned NAMBLA because Evil must be called out for what it is Evil like the LGBT like Stone Wall ect . There objective is to promote intrinsic Evil`s
I would not be much of a Catholic or a man of GOD if I did not call these Evils out for what they are for one to say nothing is what the Devil likes he does not like to be called out he like to do his dirty work in silent .

two things before I leave this conversion /Topic that you quoted

"I choose to follow the lead of our Holy Father and ask, "Who am I to judge?"

This quote by the Holy Father has been miss quoted over and over again
the Catholic church is here to "JUDGE" right & wrong morel & immortal's
but the main objective of the Catholic Church is to save souls so how can a Church who does not "JUDGE" save souls.

"I will leave this topic now with one final question: Indeed, did not Jesus teach us to Love thy neighbor as thyself?"

This Teaching of Our Blessed Lord as I understand is this to love thy neighbor as thyself is not to leave thy neighbor live in mortal SIN.

Dec 14th 2013 new
(quote) Gabor-19025 said: The "Gay Manifesto" was absolutely filled with hatred towards Christians and it was very sad reading.

As Our Lady pointed out at Fatima the sins that lead many to the fires of Hell are the sins of the flesh. These include heterosexual and homosexual sins. What good can come for someone turning away from sin, perhaps because they are rebuked by a Christian? They may be spared the eternal fires and instead enjoy eternal peace with God the Father in Heaven. A well known local identity died suddenly this year. He was formerly a notorious gay advocate and practised what he preached. Through the grace of God he was led to the Catholic Church. To quote him in a newspaper article:

"There was no getting around the fact the New Testament said we were all meant to be chaste or monogamously married and I had reluctantly concluded that St Paul was right about homosexual sex."

I rejoice when someone seeks and finds the Truth (fortunately there are many) rather than being a victim of false charity. Saying "it's OK to live any way you want and God accepts it" is frankly not the way it works. There are people in Heaven as we speak because they were pulled up by someone and changed their lives.
Excuse me if I don't get this completely right, Gabor I think you would know, Didn't The Blessed Mother also say at Fatima that souls will fall like the snow fall because of sins of the flesh ?
Dec 14th 2013 new
Thank you for the link and for initiating a thoughtful thread, Damien.
As another mentioned, it's hard to get past the first paragraph or two.

For anyone to deny the existence of a Gay Agenda is to deny the
fact that he or she is alive and reading this sentence. To me, it
started with the marginalizing of Anita Bryant and her protests
in the 70's.

There is no hate in wanting to deny a group of people
that chooses to live immoral and abnormal lives the right
to pressure others into accepting it as being 'okay.' Just
as I don't have to 'LOVE' a guy in SF who's going to drop
some X tonight and go out and have sex with four or five
different men.

What gives me peace is to know that the younger generations
growing up today are not buying it. The issues that gays and
their supporters are fighting for today will be looked back at by
future generations as being among the most foolish in human history.

Dec 14th 2013 new
(quote) Wendy-387654 said: There's actually scripture out there that states we will be held accountable for NOT speaking up. (Will try to find it to post)

Wendy, this is such an important largely forgotten, not so widely known point & Christian obligation. Unfortunately, our society has gravitated to the "its my business/you do you, I do me--relativism orientation. The "village" principle, for the most part, is not valued in western civilization. It truly is an act of love to hold each other accountable. Otherwise, how else can we maximize getting as many of us to Heaven, with God's grace, of course.
Dec 14th 2013 new
Homosexuality has always been around and always will be. What to do with them? Shall we kill them all like the nazis almost succeeded in doing to the Jews? Shall we round them up and ship them off to Guantanamo bay? Banish them to bantustans behind walls like the Palestinians are forced to live in? If sexual preference is a choice as some of you believe, try making that choice for yourself. I'll wager none of us could wake up tomorrow morning and decide to live a gay lifestyle. Then why do some Catholics believe, as many Christian fundamentalists do, that it is a choice for them? As I mentioned before, I have discussed this in depth with a lesbian acquaintance who actually told me that I would be her type if she was straight, but it wasn't something she could decide. I explained to her the reasons behind my opposition to changing the definition of marriage, that I was not opposed to her happiness, benefits, what have you, but please call it something else. In a free society we should be able to be civil to each other even if we vehemently disagree. I don't like it either, but it is what it is.
Dec 14th 2013 new
(quote) Mary-1034540 said: It makes me saddened to see inflammatory, defammatory rhetoric of any kind in this community environment that encourages prejudice born of fear and others have mirrored this sentiment in other forums. Our Holy Father encourages us to be loving and accepting of all God's children. Why must some part of the human race demonize one race or group or another? What good comes of castigating someone else as a lesser being? There are far greater minds than mine to address this philosophical and psychological question however, what I feel compelled to ask is why all the fear mongering and why bring it here? To what end?
Does it help anyone grow in love, understanding and acceptance of our human family? Empathy for those who don't 'fit in' might be a more faith filled option. Medicine has recognized for a long time that gender is not clear in some albeit a small percentage of the population. Should we reject and thereby abuse these children? People do not choose their gender preferences. Many suffer great emotional pains of rejection and many die or are killed because of a characteristic they did not ask for. The same could be said for the color of one's skin or the ethnic group we are born into.
Once we get into lumping any group of people into a "them" it is easier to hate. I recall during the Viet Nam war and no, I won't minimize that by calling it a 'conflict,' that the Viet Namese soldiers were dehumanized by being referred to by a derogatory name which I won't repeat.. for the reason that it made it easier to kill an "it" and not another human being. Perhaps... it is not gender attraction that is the 'evil' here but rather the hate that gets directed at any Child of God. Seek first to understand is a kinder, gentler and more Christian approach is it not?
There is a difference between acceptance of others as brothers and sisters, and affirmation of sinful and destructive behaviors.

These are our brothers and sisters, but to admonish, through, if no other means are available, the non-affirmation of expressions of false unity, is a spiritual act of mercy. The end and goal is the planting of the seed which, by God's grace, leads to repentance and a change of life that, in the case of same-sex relationships, will lead to bodily and spiritual death.

We must love the sinner, but hate the sin precisely because sin hurts and can kill the sinner.
Dec 14th 2013 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: There is a difference between acceptance of others as brothers and sisters, and affirmation of sinful and destructive behaviors.

These are our brothers and sisters, but to admonish, through, if no other means are available, the non-affirmation of expressions of false unity, is a spiritual act of mercy. The end and goal is the planting of the seed which, by God's grace, leads to repentance and a change of life that, in the case of same-sex relationships, will lead to bodily and spiritual death.

We must love the sinner, but hate the sin precisely because sin hurts and can kill the sinner.
Allow me to correct a point. It is the change of life that leads to life...the continuation of sin leads to bodily & spiritual death.
Dec 14th 2013 new
(quote) Peter-449116 said: Homosexuality has always been around and always will be. What to do with them? Shall we kill them all like the nazis almost succeeded in doing to the Jews? Shall we round them up and ship them off to Guantanamo bay? Banish them to bantustans behind walls like the Palestinians are forced to live in? If sexual preference is a choice as some of you believe, try making that choice for yourself. I'll wager none of us could wake up tomorrow morning and decide to live a gay lifestyle. Then why do some Catholics believe, as many Christian fundamentalists do, that it is a choice for them? As I mentioned before, I have discussed this in depth with a lesbian acquaintance who actually told me that I would be her type if she was straight, but it wasn't something she could decide. I explained to her the reasons behind my opposition to changing the definition of marriage, that I was not opposed to her happiness, benefits, what have you, but please call it something else. In a free society we should be able to be civil to each other even if we vehemently disagree. I don't like it either, but it is what it is.
There is an Orthodox speaker, Frederica Matthews-Green, has a couple of podcasts on the topic of "gay rights" that are on topic here. She points out that, when talking about "self-control," Christians and homosexuals are talking past one another. The homosexual, as the lesbian person you mention, is talking about their desires, whereas the Christian is largely talking about self-control of sexual practice.

The Church, in the Catechism, makes the distinction between respect for persons and the call to chastity, which is a universal call to all who are not married.

We should also note that, for those that follow the advice of the Church, they do not remain in the same place forever. Grace builds on and perfects our natures, and can heal us as we seek to purge sin from our lives.

www.ancientfaith.com

www.ancientfaith.com




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