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This room is for supportive and informative discussion about divorce and/or the annulment process. All posters must have been previously divorced or annulled.

Saint Eugene De Mazenod is patron of dysfunctional families & Saint Fabiola obtained a divorce from her first husband prior to devoting her life to charitable works.
Learn More: Saint Eugene De Mazenod and Saint Fabiola

Jul 23rd 2014 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: I'm so glad I went through this process and then left it in God's hands -- I'm so glad it's over -- I'm so glad I can be free of the obligation to behave as if I were still married to him -- I'm so ready to move on -- I'm free!
Rachel, Not to take away from your celebration, but all along you have been definitively saying that in x days you will be free. That's just not true. The final decision is needed before you can claim such a thing. In that light, I am not sure how to interpret your post that I quoted here. Did you get a letter saying a Decree of Nullity was issued for your case?
Jul 29th 2014 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: I was told by my diocesan Canon Lawyer just two weeks ago that if the paperwork is complete AND several witnesses have responded affirmatively, there is a very high (almost 100%) chance that the marriage will be considered null by the first court. MOST of the time the second court agrees with the first court.
He also stated that most annulments that are not granted are due to lack of complete answers on the questionaire and/or lack of complete, affirmative, witness statements. He said he has a stack of angry letters from people whose annulments were not granted, due to the two aforementioned reasons.
Pope Benedict declared that there are far too many marriage annulments granted, especially in the U.S., so "yes" it is true, and she has not been misinformed.

I hate to say it, but I have friends who were denied their annulments. And the paperwork was complete and fine. So some are denied. It is NOT an automatic.


Jul 29th 2014 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: I was told by my diocesan Canon Lawyer just two weeks ago that if the paperwork is complete AND several witnesses have responded affirmatively, there is a very high (almost 100%) chance that the marriage will be considered null by the first court. MOST of the time the second court agrees with the first court.
He also stated that most annulments that are not granted are due to lack of complete answers on the questionaire and/or lack of complete, affirmative, witness statements. He said he has a stack of angry letters from people whose annulments were not granted, due to the two aforementioned reasons.
Pope Benedict declared that there are far too many marriage annulments granted, especially in the U.S., so "yes" it is true, and she has not been misinformed.
Joan, I disagree.
Jul 29th 2014 new
(quote) Trish-1034533 said:

I hate to say it, but I have friends who were denied their annulments. And the paperwork was complete and fine. So some are denied. It is NOT an automatic.


Yes I know of such cases as well.
Jul 29th 2014 new
(quote) Trish-1034533 said:

I hate to say it, but I have friends who were denied their annulments. And the paperwork was complete and fine. So some are denied. It is NOT an automatic.


The paperwork might have been complete, however it was obviously not "fine" or the annulment would have been granted, according to my current tribunal lawyer. There are ways to get an annulment and there are ways not to get an annulment. You need to know what to write and what not to write' what to say and what not to say. It is all a game. If you don't know how to play the game, or refuse to play, you will be disappointed.
In my particular case, my former husband, the petitioner, had a former tribunal lawyer help him complete the paperwork. There were so many inconsistencies between what "he" wrote, what I wrote, and what the witnesses wrote that the tribunal lawyer acknowledged total confusion in the final statement, YET the annulment was granted. What caused this confusion? THe former tribunal lawyer had my husband write things that weren't even close to reality because the former tribunal lawyer knew what needed to be written in order to get the annulment granted. This former tribunal lawyer was elderly & quite ill at the time and died a short time later. That fact alone should have been a HUGE red flag to the current tribunal lawyer, especially since his mind was affected so much by his poor physical condition that he wasn't even able to offer a comprehendable homily during Sunday mass.
Annulments are granted by HUMANS, not by God, and humans make lots of mistakes.....
Jul 29th 2014 new
(quote) Sarah-984501 said: I'm partway through this at the moment, and I'm conscious that most of the forum users are from the US, so the Diocesan rules are all quite different. The Australian case is much stricter!
I am the respondent in my case, and the case is on its way to Rome as the second instance court. Only after an consistent decision from TWO tribunals is an annulment decision "made", if the decisions aren't the same, then the marriage remains valid.
I am horrified by a few post I've seen where "if the paperwork is correct, the annulment is granted."... is that really the way it works in the US? Wow. Completely contrary to Canon Law!






Without seeing the context of the "if the paperwork is correct..." assertions, it is impossible to know what the original poster meant. But I can think of a couple cases where the characterization is true, and many others for which it is not true.

If the paperwork is for a "Lack of Form" annulment, it really is practically a "correct paperwork" situation. As I understand it, in some European jurisdictions, LoF cases are considered so simple that parish priests have been given the authority to take care of it all for the petitioner. (Yet there can be complicating circumstances that will move a simple "Lack of Form" case into a full tribunal hearing which makes for a more complex and lengthy process.)

There are also cases wherein (a) the paperwork contains the appropriate reasons for nullity, (b) the witnesses fully corroborate the circumstances, and (c) the respondent does not contest the filing. I can see such cases being described as a "correct paperwork" situation. That is, I can see a canon lawyer or parish priest saying something like "if the paperwork is correct..." for pastoral purposes. Such a statement may have been meant in a comprehensive sense encompassing the entirety of a very good case and including all 3rd-party paperwork that is submitted to the tribunal, yet the petitioner heard it in a very limited sense having to do with only the completeness of their own paperwork.

On the other side of the fence, there are all the cases submitted to tribunals wherein (a) the paperwork does not document circumstances that qualify, and/or (b) the witnesses don't support the petitioner, and/or (c) the respondent contests the filing. Such should not be characterized as a "correct paperwork" "rubberstamp."




__________
two cents - on a good day
Jul 30th 2014 new
I live in Australia,in Sydney, I was granted an annulment in the mid 1990's It took 3.5 years. I had no idea whether it would be granted or not. In the end it was given on the basis of my grose immaturity at the time of the marriage I was not happy about that actually but it was not mycall.
Jul 31st 2014 new
Tribunals and the Bishops with those diocesan responsibilities carry the burden for the Church. They are well aware of this responsibility. Jesus gave Peter and the Church the ability to loose and bind, in heaven and on earth. As mere obedient children, we have to trust the wisdom of the Church - at this moment in time - for the sake of our souls. Had we lived in earlier times, this entire conversation would not exist. The process exists in this culture as an answer to the faith crisis that the Church sees as a hemorrhage. Divine Mercy is here. We need to stop bickering amongst ourselves about things like this.
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