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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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From a non 7-of-7

Dec 15th 2013 new

98% of what I see on CM is inspiring to me. People treating each other as I imagine the first Christians did, with joy, compassion, kindness, support-and frankness, too. Paul taught honesty was the best way to dispel tension and bring about renewed community.

But sometimes I see hostility, often towards non 7-of-7s. And Im a bit baffled by it.

I believe that God tells us what is good and what is not. He doesnt do it to be punishing or cruel. He deeply wants us to be happy, and knows how that can happen, so He tells it like it is.

For example, pre-marital sex. Lots of forum discussions on that.

God doesnt think sex is bad. He invented it, He knows how, in perfect sacramental love, two people can be joined in an ecstasy so powerful that Psalms were written about it.

He also knows how much heartbreak and pain and suffering can come from accepting less than that ideal, probably from the millions of prayers asking for comfort from those suffering.

If someone doesnt understand that, or any of Gods rules, being harsh with them is not going to help. It wont draw them closer to God, wont make them suddenly see the light. Making them go away, and use a different site, doesnt prevent the pain they risk.

My son is six. He does not understand in any way the danger of not looking before he crosses the street. I do. So I drill it into him, remind him, watch him. Fear for him. Pray for him.

When he disobeys, I dont shun him. I dont tell him hes not part of our family. I dont remind him how smart I am compared to him. I yell, I admit it. But I yell while Im hugging him and telling him Im so glad he didnt get run over.

Its how God acts with me.

None of us is as spiritually as mature as Christ. And as a non 7-of-7, I may be much more immature than everyone, anyone on this site. But looking back over my life, my spiritual maturity has grown, every year, and not by accident. I read, pray, talk, reflect, embrace the Sacraments as a lifeline in my tempest. Am I what God hopes me to be? No, and I know it, deeply. But each morning I awake is a new chance. How will I understand and accept Gods hopes and plan today?

So, when you encounter someone you see as less spiritually mature than you, maybe pray for them. If you feel anger, or frustration, or extreme disappointment, embrace that, and then let it go, so you can appreciate the grace youve been given to understand something perhaps someone else cannot yet.

Even six year olds are loved by God.

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Dec 15th 2013 new
(quote) CatherineRose-996317 said:

But sometimes I see hostility, often towards non 7-of-7s. And Im a bit baffled by it.

 

There are at times rudeness shown here and in the world at large but I do not believe many here have ill feelings towards others as a general rule. This comment may sound selfish but the fact that you don't believe in some of the Church's teachings is your problem rather than my problem. You are a stranger to me and I will probably never meet you. The easy way out is to let you believe what you want to. It ain't going to impact my life at all. We as Catholics are not prone to defend the faith or evangelize, no matter how good it may be to a soul for the fear of offending and being politically correct. I came across a couple of quotes today:

"No more silence! Shout with a hundred thousand tongues! I am seeing the world going to ruin because people are not speaking out."St Catherine of Siena

"The nature of the Catholic faith is such that nothing can be added to it, nothing taken away. Either it is held in its entirety or it is rejected totally. This is the Catholic faith which, unless a man believes faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved."Pope Benedict XV

If you have problems with anything that the Church teaches, is the problem with the Church or with you? Is your pride standing in the way? Have you read Church teaching or discussed the issues with a good priest? Have you thought that despite being troubled by a Church teaching that you will accept it and attempt to understand it?



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Dec 15th 2013 new
Hi Catherine Ro,

Can I ask which of the 7 catholic statements do you dis-agree with and why?

Otherwise the discussion could remain imprecise and woolly!
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Dec 15th 2013 new
(quote) Gabor-19025 said: This comment may sound selfish but the fact that you don't believe in some of the Church's teachings is your problem rather than my problem. You are a stranger to me and I will probably never meet you. The easy way out is to let you believe what you want to. It ain't going to impact my life at all. 
Of course, Gabor, there is practicality to what you say. How in the world can we be expected to care about the problems of strangers when we have plenty of own? And there are SO many strangers. It would be exhausting to care about each of them! HOWEVER, I suppose I would encourage you to remember that you and Catherine Ro are members of the same body the body of our Lord Jesus Christ! We were baptized into one body. This is not just a nice-sounded metaphor, but is instead a deep and awesome reality. And reality has consequences, according to St. Paul: "If one part [of the body] suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy." Is is our responsibility to build up our brothers and sisters in Christ! To pray and to fast and to worship and to share the good news and to teach our brothers and sisters to observe what Christ and His Church have commanded. I think it is a cop-out to say that Catholics are poor evangelizers. Christ himself commanded us to spread the gospel! We take our Lord seriously when he says, "Do this in memory of me." Should we not take him equally as seriously when he says, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations"?

Catherine Ro, I am sorry if you feel that you have been shunned. I know from experience how hurtful that can be. Forgive us, sister! I suppose I might encourage you to recall that we are ONE body. St. Paul cautions us many times to be wary of divisions among the body because we must be united in the same mind and the same judgement. Division is a tool of the Evil One and St. Luke reminds us that a divided house falls. What is salvation but union with God? How can we hope for salvation if we do not seek greater and more perfect union with the body of Christ (the Church!) while here on earth? I am a convert and I KNOW that some of the teachings of Holy Mother Church can be hard to understand. Please, my sister, in spite of the difficulties, I entreat you to continue to strive to unite your heart and soul and mind to the Church of Christ. When we say to the Church, "I know better than you," we fall short of communion.

Please forgive your brothers and sisters for hurtful words. Mea culpa! We desire greater unity among Catholics and sometimes this ardor comes across as nastiness. Again, mea culpa!
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Dec 15th 2013 new
Dear Catherine Ro, I would suggest that you also consider Paul's teaching on the virtue of chastity. Yes he teaches about the community but he also says that it's better for virgins to remain as they are and that married people should remain as they are. He NEVER advocated sex outside of the context of marriage. I would be careful with the misunderstanding of "sex is not a bad thing" as it most often leads to the rationalization of sin. Sincerely, Greg
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Dec 15th 2013 new
Thank you for a refreshing lesson on charity!
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Dec 15th 2013 new
Hi Catherine, I read your profile and I noticed that you said no to two of the questions. The one that baffled me was you don't believe in the Holy Orders. Our Church has used this hierarchy since it's inception. Without this doctrine, the church would be political and in a general state of anarchy.
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Dec 15th 2013 new
(quote) Marge-938695 said: Thank you for a refreshing lesson on charity!
theheart Praying
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Dec 15th 2013 new
(quote) Gilbert-994253 said: Hi Catherine, I read your profile and I noticed that you said no to two of the questions. The one that baffled me was you don't believe in the Holy Orders. Our Church has used this hierarchy since it's inception. Without this doctrine, the church would be political and in a general state of anarchy.
Do apologize for the hostility you have endured .... true, one need not be but ask why you have indicated "no" esp on Holy Orders ... Without the successor to St. Peter and Apostles we would not have the teaching for Christ in our lives or any and all of the Heavenly gifts bestowed to us ... we are mere mortals and thus return to dust all that we gain and earn on earth, but, the Heavenly gifts we accumulate will never die as Jesus has promised for Jesus is the Head and Mary is Queen of the Church ... so, I'm baffled, like Gilbert why you stated "no" on Holy Orders, in order that we can understand your point of view, this is your choice and you don't have too if you don't want too ... we do alot of soul searching and grow in faith, that is why i lovestruck! with participating and contribution in the fora, the ability to understand and share with so amazing and faith/prayerful mbrs ...

May our loving and gentle mother, Blessed Virgin Mary and God who knows our every need guide and strengthen you, and give you the peace in your wisdom in your troubled heart .... hug Praying theheart rosary rose rose rose
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Dec 15th 2013 new
98% inspiring is really good. When you take into consideration that its human nature to have a "us and them" mentality and combine that with people being bolder with their words online than they would be in person its really impressive. I have to confess that as a 7 of 7 myself I tend to want to jump on someone's back who isn't and want to hit them over the head with the Catechism thinking my insight will convert them. But in reality only the Holy Spirit can change someone's heart. So thanks for this reminder I think I need to be a little less humble myself and be able to walk alongside with anyone wherever they are at.
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