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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Jan 17th 2014 new
(quote) James-17080 said: Hi Paul et alia,

Paul, you mentioned global warming. Setting aside whatever solutions there might be for this, are you claiming that global warming is not happening?

James ☺
I would say that there is a lot not understood by scientists, whatever false-dogmatic statements they make.

I would to point out that there may not be a lot that can be done, other than mitigation, for the changes in various climates of late. One thing that needs to be realized is that there is no such thing as a "global climate"; it's really a lot of local climates.

Finally, I might point out that there are significant environmental issues that aren't being addressed, some precisely because they conflict with the very agenda of Global Warming. One in particular is contraception, which is causing the feminizaton of fish and other creatures through the byproducts of female chemical birth control (and if you think it doens't affect you, remember that you are drinking water that is, in part treated upstream).
Jan 17th 2014 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: I would say that there is a lot not understood by scientists, whatever false-dogmatic statements they make.

I would to point out that there may not be a lot that can be done, other than mitigation, for the changes in various climates of late. One thing that needs to be realized is that there is no such thing as a "global climate"; it's really a lot of local climates.

Finally, I might point out that there are significant environmental issues that aren't being addressed, some precisely because they conflict with the very agenda of Global Warming. One in particular is contraception, which is causing the feminizaton of fish and other creatures through the byproducts of female chemical birth control (and if you think it doens't affect you, remember that you are drinking water that is, in part treated upstream).
Hi Steven et alia,

Let us set aside problems associated with mitigation.

I wish to focus on Paul's skepticism on global warming or climate change. Scientists, reputable scientists, have been studying this problem for a long time. It was known as far back as the 1950s that the atmosphere was warming. The permafrost has been constantly receding since the 1950s. The atmosphere is warming, and carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, has a lot to do with this. Those local climates that you refer to are, on the average, getting warmer.

I first ran across this denial of climate change back in 2003, when a wizard here posted that, in effect, it did not exist. I told him that I sure hope he is right, but that is not the way things are going. That is still my position today.

I'm curious about those "false-dogmatic statements" that you claim the scientists make. Can you cite some?

James ☺
Jan 17th 2014 new
(quote) James-17080 said: Hi Paul et alia,

Paul, you mentioned global warming. Setting aside whatever solutions there might be for this, are you claiming that global warming is not happening?

James ☺
If it is, it is strictly a natural phenomena that man has not caused.

The globe has been warming in fits and starts since the last ice age ended and will continue to do so, in fits and starts, until the next ice age begins. That cycle will continue until the end of time. Now you might be able tomake a case for man made global warming if you could prove that the caver men during thye ice age burned so many tress and that caused the end of the ice age.

Furthermore, earth temperatures were warmer in the 1300s and as recently as the 1930s than it is now. And there is further evidence that the temperatures stopped warming 15 years ago.

Spending untold billions to solve this non=problem will have little to no effect in either direction.

If you believe that the burning of fossil fuels is the cause, reflect on the fact that a single good sized volcanic eruption puts more of those deleterious chemicals into the atmosphere than man has since he first arrived on the planet. The largest volcanic eruption in comparatively recent recorded history, did affect the weather, but for only three years.

Let's face there is another boogie man that science can hit us with.Science has irrefutable proof that the poles have switched many times over the millenniums. I am sure that has caused any number of changes to the earth and its atmosphere. We are overdue, geologically speaking, for another change. when that starts occurring I am sure politicians world wide will go well out of their way to spend trillions of dollars to reverse it.
Jan 18th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: If it is, it is strictly a natural phenomena that man has not caused.

The globe has been warming in fits and starts since the last ice age ended and will continue to do so, in fits and starts, until the next ice age begins. That cycle will continue until the end of time. Now you might be able tomake a case for man made global warming if you could prove that the caver men during thye ice age burned so many tress and that caused the end of the ice age.

Furthermore, earth temperatures were warmer in the 1300s and as recently as the 1930s than it is now. And there is further evidence that the temperatures stopped warming 15 years ago.

Spending untold billions to solve this non=problem will have little to no effect in either direction.

If you believe that the burning of fossil fuels is the cause, reflect on the fact that a single good sized volcanic eruption puts more of those deleterious chemicals into the atmosphere than man has since he first arrived on the planet. The largest volcanic eruption in comparatively recent recorded history, did affect the weather, but for only three years.

Let's face there is another boogie man that science can hit us with.Science has irrefutable proof that the poles have switched many times over the millenniums. I am sure that has caused any number of changes to the earth and its atmosphere. We are overdue, geologically speaking, for another change. when that starts occurring I am sure politicians world wide will go well out of their way to spend trillions of dollars to reverse it.
Hi Paul,

Which volcano, Tambora, Krakatoa, or ??

Tambora erupted just a few years after the end of the Maunder Minimum, and there was no real summer the next year.
Jan 18th 2014 new
(quote) James-17080 said: Hi Steven et alia,

Let us set aside problems associated with mitigation.

I wish to focus on Paul's skepticism on global warming or climate change. Scientists, reputable scientists, have been studying this problem for a long time. It was known as far back as the 1950s that the atmosphere was warming. The permafrost has been constantly receding since the 1950s. The atmosphere is warming, and carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, has a lot to do with this. Those local climates that you refer to are, on the average, getting warmer.

I first ran across this denial of climate change back in 2003, when a wizard here posted that, in effect, it did not exist. I told him that I sure hope he is right, but that is not the way things are going. That is still my position today.

I'm curious about those "false-dogmatic statements" that you claim the scientists make. Can you cite some?

James ☺
One such I would point out is the idea that our time is warmer than it has ever been since man first walked the earth, which you do hear on the news. As others have pointed out, it was warmer during other periods of history, particularly the Medieval Warm Period.

On a larger scale, you have the idea, heavily promoted by population control advocates, that the world is over its carrying capacity. The standard figure bandied about over the last couple of decades said that there only be 2 billion people on Earth at most - for every one that stays, two people have to leave the planet by sundown if they ever get serious about this! wide eyed

Indeed, one scientist, Frank Fenner, made a name for himself by claiming that humanity will go extinct in a century because of overpopulation and global warming. This in spite of the estimate that human birthrates are below replacement in an increasing number of nations and the global fertility rate has dramatically declined in the last four decades, leading to a population maximum reached by 2050 followed by a net decline of the human population thereafter.

phys.org

overpopulationisamyth.com



Jan 18th 2014 new
(quote) Bernie-645443 said: Hi Paul,

Which volcano, Tambora, Krakatoa, or ??

Tambora erupted just a few years after the end of the Maunder Minimum, and there was no real summer the next year.
A one year effect.

You mentioned that the global warming was first noticed in the 1950s

Well in those days the worries were for a new ice age. In fact, one of the most vocal propenents of the new ice age in those days, became one of the leading global warming alarmists after being scoffed at for so many years for his worthless ice age theory. Life Magazine did one of their pictorial stories presenting the ice age nonsense.

So what have we had over the last several years? Proof produced that the programs used to predict this catastrophy are flawed and worse yet the programs were fed phony data.

In the South Polar regions glaciers are receding on one side of the Continent while growing on the opposite side.
The self proclaimed inventor of the Internet, Al gore and his minions, were caught cropping photographs of Polar Bears to make it seem they were stranded on receding ice floes. His award winning film shown to be pure unadulterated nonsense.

The data so damging against this nonsense that its proponents are forced to change the argument to "climate change" because the warming position is no longer tenable. But they don't explain what that is supposed to mean. And, of course, they cannot be wrong now, because climate is always changing. Trends persist for a time and then change to something else.

In another thread you brought up the fact that we just do not have enough money to be the world's policemen. I agree with that. But neither do we have enough money to continue pursuing unproven and largely disproven theories.

Man can a does effect local climates but those effects are not enough to change global climate. Maybe when the population of man reaches the point when we are all standing shoulder to shoulder and there is no open space left anywhere on earth because it is all covered with man made objects, man wil,l be effecting glbal climate. But that is unlikely to happen since Science tells us that population, world wide, will be decrasing over the next 25 to 50 years. That theory may also be nonsenses. But right now the trends support it.

Don't forget,in the 70s scientists told us we would run out of oil in the 90s as well as food and every other mineral and natural product man relies on. And today, contrary to that theory, we have more oil than ever. More food spoils before it reaches the people who need it. bUt if we could guarantee if would reach where it is needed and the people would eat it, starvation would disappear overnight.

If the stupid politicians in this country would get on the stick and allow full development of our own oil resources, we would have enough to sup[ply current world demand for 300 years and we would be paying the same price we did in the late 50's -- 13 cents a gallon for regular and when price warsbroke out among local service stations, one could often fill up for 9 cents/gal or less.

But its always these doomsday predictions we waste good money on and accomplish nothing but wasting good money and unduly alarming people.

Jan 18th 2014 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: One such I would point out is the idea that our time is warmer than it has ever been since man first walked the earth, which you do hear on the news. As others have pointed out, it was warmer during other periods of history, particularly the Medieval Warm Period.

On a larger scale, you have the idea, heavily promoted by population control advocates, that the world is over its carrying capacity. The standard figure bandied about over the last couple of decades said that there only be 2 billion people on Earth at most - for every one that stays, two people have to leave the planet by sundown if they ever get serious about this!

Indeed, one scientist, Frank Fenner, made a name for himself by claiming that humanity will go extinct in a century because of overpopulation and global warming. This in spite of the estimate that human birthrates are below replacement in an increasing number of nations and the global fertility rate has dramatically declined in the last four decades, leading to a population maximum reached by 2050 followed by a net decline of the human population thereafter.

http://phys.org/news196489543.html

http://overpopulationisamyth.com/content/episode-5-7-billion-people-will-everyone-please-relax



Hi Steven et alia,

Overpopulation is outside the scope of this discussion. I will say that some people do indeed say very questionable things. This happened in the 1980s when the transmission of HIV was a huge issue.

Currently, the average global temperature is warmer than the Medieval Warm Period, even though some areas during that time experienced unusually warm temperatures. See adsabs.harvard.edu .

James ☺
Jan 18th 2014 new
(quote) Eric-990443 said: Does it really matter what the Pope is as long as he is trying to live by what Christ Jesus taught us?
*Erratum* "piquant" should be poignant in my above post.
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