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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Interestingly enough, I ran some very simple tests on my own computer in 1998. The State Agency that controlled Financial Planners was all over us to spend $$$$ to avoid the problem or face serious sanctions from the state. I set my computers date to 12/31/1999 and 5 minutes to midnight. sure enough when the computers clock hit midnight some January 1, 1900 cmaeup. So I reset the date to January 1, 2000 again at 5 minutes to midnight. At midnight, the computer clock set the date to January 2, 2001. I continued the tests several more times and the computer never missed a beat and always registered the correct date. it was a very old 286 computer, so it had the problem built in.

So the "fix" even for major computer systems, was simple and di not require the waste of billions of dollars to repair. It other words, it was just another nonsense scare that made some consultants a lot of money doing nothing that a simple computer operator could fix at midnight of January 1, 2000

Sorry, Paul, but your conclusion doesn't follow from the very limited observations provided here. There is nothing a computer operator can do to make the year appear as "2000" when the program assumes all years begin with "19" -- an assumption that was very common in mainframe applications.

I have worked in IT since 1979. I saw the problems -- and there were many very real problems that were either fixed or eliminated (by replacing the offending system). This isn't to say there wasn't a lot of nonsense floating around as well -- there certainly was -- but the main reason there were no major SNAFUs on 1/1/2000 was the large effort directed at providing just that outcome.

Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: How does what he says make him a socialist?

Among socialists there are elitists. IN fact, the most vocal socialist group are college professors, the most elitist people in the world.We are all plebeians compared to them. We are the great unwashed that only they can teach. and for an absolute fact they know better what is good for us then we do, even though they never apply those same rules to themselves.

As a group, the elites of socialism all suck at the public teat, absorbing tax dollars taken from the great unwashed, whom they are working their tales off for, and wasting those on their better than average salaries and wasteful programs.

Pope Francis is nothing like them. So I come back to my question: How does what he said make him a socialist?
That is the definition of socialism and again He said he was a socialist in his interveiws with CNN and the BBC, plus he has in addition to the fact he makes no appologies for being Socialist
Your own comment show that YOU dont know the definition of a Social Justice as defined by the majority of Socialist governments. It shows just how right wing you are.
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Patrick-624504 said: I base the fact the Pope is a Socialist because HE SAID SO FROM HIS OWN MOUTH,
Please provide the exact quotes from Pope Francis that support your assertion and cite the interviews and/or statements they are taken from.

Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) James-17080 said: Hi Patrick and Paul,

Good morning :-)

At least 3 people on Fox News, the source of information for all too many CM, really does not like what Francis is saying:

http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/12/03/foxs-varney-attacks-pope-francis-comments-on-in/197108

Those of us who live in the real world know that just because three knuckleheads of Fox say something, that does not make it true. But these guys are not entirely clueless. They know that the faith people have in the current economic system is shaky at best. For the Pope to come along and attack that system is a real threat. They have this binary way of thinking whereby "if you are not with us, you are against us". This is a textbook case of a false dichotomy.

If you're curious about the Pope's socialist leanings, perhaps you should contact Rush Limbaugh. But before you do, read this:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/12/15/pope-francis-rebukes-marxist-attack-from-rush-l/197273

You write "among socialists there are elites". Bill Maher, on his show Real Time With Bill Maher, talked about this. Paraphrasing, he said "When I'm ill, I want to go to an elite doctor. For education, I want to go to an elite university. If I need surgery, I want an elite surgeon. But amongst conservatives, "elite" is b∙a∙d. So unless you're a dirt farmer from Kansas, you're with the terrorists".

Yes, I suppose there are elitists on the left who practice the maxim "do as I say and not as I do". Do you believe that practice is limited to socialists who are elitists? If you do, keep in mind Rush Limbaugh's drug addiction and problems with the law. The only reason the case was not prosecuted is that Limbaugh paid out $35,000. Now that is elite treatment.

What "wasteful programs" do you suggest cutting?

James ☺
Mate Im astounded that the NSA, as per Mr Snowden, hasnt had you arrested. Well done you very fairminded but you forgot to mention the "Catholic" Bill O'Relley.
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Patrick-624504 said: That is the definition of socialism and again He said he was a socialist in his interveiws with CNN and the BBC, plus he has in addition to the fact he makes no appologies for being Socialist
Your own comment show that YOU dont know the definition of a Social Justice as defined by the majority of Socialist governments. It shows just how right wing you are.
Sorry, you reached the wrong conclusion. I am a fiscal conservative but a social liberal. Not whacky left wing but liberal in the classic sense.

Social justice is not socialism.
Jan 6th 2014 new
This post has been flagged as inappropriate for this discussion or forum.
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: First off a program to cut Federal Payrolls by 10% a year for the next 3 years would make a wonderful start. Then require all future pay raises for civil servents to be strictly on a merit bases and not automatic pay raises if they did not screw up royally. and managed to just stay on the job for another year. In fact, just freezing all pay for Federal workers until the pay in the private sector for similar jobs catches up. And by pay rate I mean including all bennies. Cut out all cost of living increases which is just a way of solidifying inflation.

Then we can save a lot by walking away from the nonsense "alternative energy' subsidies.Knock out the "carbon credit" program.

Restore sanity in some other "energy" related programs like getting rid of the good ole light bulb and force people to use the far more dangerous to the environment fluorescent bulbs. Oh yes the silly electric cars that may save us from the horrors of all those smog inducing chemicals but cost more money for battery replacement as well as providing a future source of even more dangerous ground water pollution garbage.

A few billion can be saved if we stop all the nonsense spending on "man-made" global warming projects. The lessons that are there from the computer millennium problem are there to be learned. Billions in Federal and private money wasted on complete silliness.

Getting the Feds out of education and health care will save even more billions both in tax money and unnecessary private spending generated thereby. At the same time we could actually see real improvement in both education and health care.

Oh a mere few millions could be saved by requiring Presidents to pay for their own and family vacations. And when I saw pay their own I mean including all costs.

That's just a beginning.

BY the way, I am not saying elitists don't exist in any other political or economic system. I was merely trying to show that the basis that was being used to brand Francis a socialist just don't prove what was stated to be the case.

A person is not a socialist because they are concerned for the poor or because they eschew privileges for themselves. Nor is someone a socialist just because they say that the basic necessities of life should be available to all. Nor is one a socialist for saying a rich man should do more for the poor.


Ah as I predicted!!! Keep on attacking the logic and the person and ignore the obvious change in the weather unless you live in the central USA or Canada
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Patrick-624504 said: Not again I forgot you are to lazy to think for yourself. This time as its my debate YOU cite where he said he was a Conservative Fascist.
You prove your arguement this time I dare you to find a single valid citation of Pope Francis or St Francis saying they agree with US Puritian business model and dont be so patronising or are you going to have me banned again for disagreeing with your Lutherin WASP attitudes?
I didn't claim he stated he was a conservative fascist, so why would I try to prove such a thing? In fact, I made no claim at all regarding what the Holy Ftaher said or didn't say. Nor did I at any time (prior to this) reference St. Francis.

You are the one who claimed Pope Francis said he was a socialist. You provided no evidence to support your claim. Now you are not only refusing a request to support your claim, but you are asking me to prove an argument I never presented.

Interesting debating tactic...

Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: It is disturbing to see how many flock to that news beacon known as "Fox News". Fox's loyalty is to the republican party, not to the Church. Yet for all their "outrage", isn't it interesting that their owner/boss(Rupert Murdoch) is a big time supporter of gun control? That's why when I see people hailing Fox as "fighting the good fight", I burst out laughing. World Net Daily and Infowars are much better, and have more integrity.
Greg old mate couldnt agree with you more. The Fascist News that is spewed feom that channel sickens me, I am glad I have access to CNN, BBC, CCCN, RT, Al Jessaera, and SkyNews along with omestic news.
The funny thing is Sir Rupert Murdoc is AUSTRALIAN and while he has dual citizenship hes there because of the Freemarket to avoid Australian Law and Media Ownership Laws.
But Bill OReilly is a Catholic isnt he? But you wouldnt know it for his reaction to anything that helps the poor or equalises the distribution of wealth/resources.
I agree that you should access at least 5 different news sourses hopefully from more than one country, so you get and overall view of whats up and what we can do as good Christians to achieve Christs manifesto,
The Pope is trying to change the Church direction back toward social equallity and reminding us the wAY TO HELL IS PAVED WITH gold, as Pope John XXIII tried in 1960 but was hijacked, and left forgotten and Curias to do pile.
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: I didn't claim he stated he was a conservative fascist, so why would I try to prove such a thing? In fact, I made no claim at all regarding what the Holy Ftaher said or didn't say. Nor did I at any time (prior to this) reference St. Francis.

You are the one who claimed Pope Francis said he was a socialist. You provided no evidence to support your claim. Now you are not only refusing a request to support your claim, but you are asking me to prove an argument I never presented.

Interesting debating tactic...

I GAVE YOU THE EVIDENCE IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ IT. HE SAID IT HIMSELF IN A BBC INTERVIEW AND LATER TO CNN IN A INTERVIEW/DOCUMENTARY ON THE "NEW" CHURCH.

The opposite of a socialist is coservative and the worst conservative is a fascist, Its called sarcasim, to low for even you to get Im sorry.

If the Pope is not a socialist what is he? A democrat, republican? social democrat, national socialist, liberal conservative? Well?????????

You have to divorce Socialism from the extremes of fascism and communism THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. Man is a SOCIAL animal, to share and protect is a basic primative drive hotwired into your amegdula and brain stem.

Greed ie NOT GOOD and it is not EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES, even your Bill of Rights acknowledges that, unless you were Indian, black, non caucasion or WASP but otherwise all are equal and your arms are outstretche for the huddled masses
UNLESS you are muslim, latinos from across the desert, or the carribean.
What I am saying to you is the Pope is a Socialist because he orders us all to open wide our arms, hearts and wallets to give the hungary food, the naked clothes, the sick hospital care, the homeless shelter, to defend the weak and standoff the strong from taking it all, to share with those who have nothing.
THATS SOCIALISM. THATS CHRISTIAN TEACHING, THATS WHY THE POPE IS A SOCIALIST. And to the other fellow about being a Jesuit making the Pope a socialist one of the key orders of The Society of Jesus is charity and giving SOCIALISM.
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