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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Kristen-878108 said: That is probably the sad truth, Bernie. Honestly, when I began this process a little over a year ago, I naively looked forward to it! I saw all these wonderful men on here, and I thought this would be great fun! Then I realized that all these nice men on here were not going to communicate with me! And the few that did were definitely not ready for any sort of committed relationship. What's the deal? I've been "viewed to death." It's a bit of a blow to the self esteem. I've changed my pictures time and again, rewrote my profile several times, tried a number of methods - viewing, sending emotes, participating in the forums, NOTHING WORKS. Apparently CM is an online catalog. I would imagine the newer models (younger) that require less shipping and handling (i.e. live in one's backyard) probably get more interest. But I definitely think you've hit the nail on the head. Getting married requires self-sacrifice and commitment. If a man can't even commit to sending a message, well, that's a problem.
Hi Kristen,

Many men here don't accept the responsibility that comes with free will, get derailed by the secular " journey is the goal " trap.

God's right man for you will be exercising free will in his choice to grow and expand himself every day to be worthy of you.
Jan 6th 2014 new
Thank you, Bernie! biggrin That is a very interesting insight - the connection between responsibility and free will. And thank you of the reminder about waiting for man man who has this attitude.

Thank you also for being the lone brave man who has posted on this thread! I am sure that there are many men who refuse to post on this thread because they think it is a "man bashing thread". It isn't. It's meant to be a wake up call. I look at some profiles of men who appear to have been on here 5, 6 years. While there will always be younger women populating CM, the sad reality is, the individual is not getting any younger! They should take a chance on at least getting to know someone NOW than regretting the fact that they didn't in another 10 years when a 42 year old like me looks a little more promising...
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Kristen-878108 said: Thank you also for being the lone brave man who has posted on this thread!
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Bob-59786 said: Untrue.
I defer to experience and order of comment !

Post away, Bob !
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Bob-59786 said: Untrue.
Oops.. ashamed Sorry Bob! I didn't scroll through to check. My mistake!! Please forgive me. Rephrase: "Thank you and to Bob for being the lone brave men who have posted on this thread!"
Jan 6th 2014 new
(quote) Kristen-878108 said:

This is an interesting talk Jason Evert gave to some young adults on some of the challenges of finding self-giving love in our ultilitarian culture. I am starting to wonder if perhaps at my age, the desire for this holy love is a futile hope.

In part 4 of the talk, Jason states that the biggest fear of a woman is that she will end up alone, which is why so many women compromise their sexuality in our utilitarian culture. She thinks that if she doesn't, how will anyone want her?

For the man, the fear is giving of himself - of initiating love and sticking with one woman. That's why many guys are satisfied with sexually intimate relationships that have no promise of ever leading to commitment; because why commit when women are willing to give sexual intimacy without commitment?

Now of course, at the end of the talk Jason concludes that if you want to have a relationship that leads to life long commitment and self-giving love, Theology of the Body is the way to live. I completely agree. But I guess I'd never thought about our current situation in the stark terms that Jason puts it. Meaning, that even "good men" have a hard time pursuing commitment in a world where the above is the norm. I guess I thought perhaps men who desired a holy Catholic marriage would be able to rise above this cultural confusion. But I'm starting to wonder...
Most of the men I've corresponded with for longer periods of time eventually demonstrated this same fear of commitment.

I personally would rather be alone than compromise myself for anything less than self-giving love. Because ultimately, as a beloved of God, I am not alone! I want to be a saint, and if that means being a "white martyr (as opposed to red) of a ultilitarian culture," so be it. I just wonder if there might be a few who want something MORE than the status quo out there? Are there like minded people on CM who want this same beautiful ideal of Christian marriage. What do you think?
Thank you for sharing this, Kristen. I feel that Jason really hit the nail on the head when he underscored how many couples are in a rush to tackle the physical aspect of the relationship before anything else, preventing them from ever developing friendship or even love in itself. Hook-ups, one-night-stands, and FWBs are extremely prevalent in our current society. It has come to the point where premarital sex is almost socially acceptable and lack of commitment is commonplace. Furthermore, a consistent point that I strongly agree with and that Jason returns to is how the absence of chastity negatively affects relationships and hinders spiritual growth.

I think the only aspect where he falls short is his view of a man and woman's mindset in a relationship. I wish it was fleshed out a bit more. And I think this is where all the discord and debate comes from in this thread. Although it is true that there are some men out there who are pigs and have no morals, the same could be said about some women. Additionally, I have known both Catholic men and women who settled because they did not believe they could find a good Catholic spouse - individuals who fell away from the church and decided to establish the physical aspect of a relationship before the spiritual one and foregoing friendship and true love.

The issue of commitment that he throws out there as a problem for men, is not gender specific, either. On both sides of the spectrum, there are faults that each gender share. In my dating experience, I have come across many women who were afraid of commitment. Some were just genuinely hurt by pigs before as Jason aptly described in his video. However, there were also those who like that because of their desire to find the perfect, idealized man, and others were like that because they did not believe in being chaste and were merely looking for FWBs.

To place the blame on a single gender was not the point of his discussion, and we must realize that the knife cuts both ways and examine our own lives instead of placing the blame on a specific gender. If a potential spouse does not believe in being chaste before marriage, then he or she is clearly not for you. In the end, we have free will that God graciously gave to us. It is not the fault of another person if we do not decide to be chaste, but our very own fault.

As for people on CM who have been single for a long time, I think that would be a separate topic as to why they're still single.

In retrospect, many of us, both men and women, are guilty of not wanting to be alone and are afraid of having to settle. Even though this is the case, we should never compromise our morals because of an irrational fear. Remember that God has plans for all of us.

"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

Jan 6th 2014 new

In his Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle defines three types of friendship.

Friendship of utility...

...exist between you and someone who is useful to you in some way. For instance, perhaps you're friendly with your cubicle mate mainly because she helps you figure out the printer when it jams and--if you're an IT guy--you pretend to fix her computer in some top-secret-awesome way when it freezes, although all you really do is re-boot it. Or maybe the two of you take turns going out on coffee runs. Possibly you're friendly with your neighbor because she waters your lonely little cactus when you got on vacation and you take care of her Great Dane when she's away. These are friendships of the "You scratch my back, I'll degrade myself by picking up your pooch's poop with a plastic baggie" kind.

Friendship of pleasure...

...exist between you and those whose company you enjoy. Often, these are "activity buddies": people with whom you do things like playing soccer, going for long bike rides or cow-tipping. You may have this kind of relationship with one of the other locals at your friendly neighbor coffee shop or gym or tattoo parlor--the kind of person with whom you enjoy a little chit-chat or a good joke. (Would "friendships with benefits" fall into this category--because you're both enjoying the sexual pleasure? Or into the first category, because you're using each other for sex? Good question. But I think casual sex is a bit closer to #2, because The Big A. says friendships of pleasure come about because we do like some--or many--aspects of the friend. We might like his wit, her compassion or his flirty manner, for instance. Friendships of utility, on the other hand, exist mainly because the person can help us out in some way.)

Friendship of the good...

...are based on mutual respect and admiration. These friendships take longer to build than the other two kinds--but they're also more powerful and enduring. They often arises when two people recognize that they have similar values and goals; that they have similar visions for how the world (or at least their lives) should be.

I would think that a self-giving, committed relationship falls under a Friendship of the Good. But how do you achieve this when we have a dating culture that identifies romantic love as a Friendship of Pleasure. In my opinion, these Friendships of Pleasure are often a hindrance to developing a deeper, more meaningful Friendship of the Good which is much more appropriate for the self-giving, committed relationship that one would want with a spouse.

Jan 7th 2014 new
(quote) Kristen-878108 said: Oops.. Sorry Bob! I didn't scroll through to check. My mistake!! Please forgive me. Rephrase: "Thank you and to Bob for being the lone brave men who have posted on this thread!"
All is fine, except that Auburn just lost to Florida State ending the SEC's chance of 8 straight BCS Championships.

Go Kristen Go - bugle call - CHARGE!!!!!!
Jan 7th 2014 new
After being widowed out of my marriage five months ago, I consecrated myself to Mary and placed myself under my son's protection. I haven't been here long enough to experience a lot of what I have been reading. I can say, very assuredly, that I do want a self-giving, committed relationship. I was married for 37 years and I loved it -not always minute by minute -but overall. I know that when I accept a courtship (different from dating) and have the blessing if my son and my daughters, the most beautiful gift that I can give my new husband is my purity. God promises us that he will give us the desires if our heart...I just believe that it will be in His perfect time and not in mine.

i am willing to "work for it"....checking that box.
Jan 7th 2014 new
Hi Kristen,
Love your needling cajoling. "When sin abounds grace abounds more." Do you believe? Let me hear an Amen!

Faith is believing even when we can't see it. And this is a case where I would lean back on a "Field of Dreams" and paraphase..."if you believe it, he will come". Nothing can separate us from the Love of God, not statistics, nor culture, nor popular wisdom nor even our own experience. The only thing that is really real or truly true, is the Love of God, which for me is manifested in the lives of men and women of faith. Perhaps the greatest miracle in our present day is that self-donating man or woman willing to give his life, his fortune, his all for his beloved. And I believe it is always a miracle. But in our world, such a miracle would be faith-affirming, hope-restoring, and love-transforming. To adapt Dun Scotus defense of the BVM immaculate Conception which was much more requiring of faith, "It is possible, it is fitting, therefore it is happening".

For myself, there can be no other type of relationship. I sadly had to face this dilemna and I chose utter self-donation. But the greater question for me is...Have I utterly donated myself to God's plan for my choice. Do I believe enough in His Love and providence for me. Do I surrender my sense of timing enough to patiently wait upon the Lord for the Beloved He has chosen for me? Do I love Him enough to die to the preconceptions, demands and selfish expectations of my human will in order to allow His Divine Will operate in this choice so that my union will be a Holy Marriage?

I believe that such faith will not only be rewarded by the appearance of equally pure and selfless mate, but that such a marriage will become a channel of grace for the world, a manifestation of God's Kingdom on earth.
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