Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

A place to learn, mingle, and share

Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Jan 21st 2014 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: Where there is a positive moral obligation to another person, as established by the commandment, I would say that, yes, you owe that person something. Perhaps you can find some definition of 'owe' that you interpret to mean otherwise; however, at that point I say it's quibbling over semantics.

The fourth commandment reminds grown children of their responsibilities toward their parents. As much as they can, they must give them material and moral support in old age and in times of illness, loneliness, or distress. Jesus recalls this duty of gratitude (CCC 2218)

Jerry,

In a "perfect world" this concept of children honoring their parents is great. Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world. We live in a world in which parents neglect and abuse their children. I see it EVERYDAY in my job as a special ed. teacher in a low income school. I have NO respect for these parents and feel they should be incarcerated for the rest of their lives. ONLY by the grace of God can these children be productive members of society; their childhood haunts them, whatever portion of it they are able to recall.

My former husband is a "child" with broken wings, and I say child because he is 57 with the emotional maturity level of a 3 year old. He was neglected and abused as a child. When I asked him about his childhood he could not recall ANYTHING, good nor bad. This lack of recall is very common amongst children of abuse. At one point he was told he has borderline personality disorder as a result of the abuse and neglect he endured at the hands of his mother. He has never been able to fully recognize the damage done to him and continues to try to "please" the woman who has caused him such emotional turmoil. His mother suffered from emotional abuse/neglect as a child (her mother tried to abort her and when she wasn't successful she gave her to her sister to raise until she was school age) as well. And the cycle continued.

Then consider, "why" are we attracted to someone who cannot "fly"? Who's wings are broken? Because of my sensitive nature and having grown up in a home in which my mother was not available to nurture me, my wings were broken, so I sought someone who also had broken wings. And together we stayed on the ground; neither one of us was strong enough to fly on our own, much less help the other fly.

As was mentioned earlier, we are not here to help others fly (that is called co-dependency). We are here to do the work to strengthen our own wings and once we are strong we will be able to recognize another individual who is healthy enough to be in a relationship.

AND damned be to those parents who abuse and neglect their children, causing them to have broken wings.

Only by the grace of God (and alot of work on our part) can the wings be healed so we can soar.
Jan 21st 2014 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: In a "perfect world" this concept of children honoring their parents is great. Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world. We live in a world in which parents neglect and abuse their children. I see it EVERYDAY in my job as a special ed. teacher in a low income school. I have NO respect for these parents and feel they should be incarcerated for the rest of their lives.

AND damned be those parents who abuse and neglect their children, causing them to have broken wings.

I'm not sure that your position and Jerry's can't be reconciled. It's not a failure of Christian love to incarcerate a criminal for the rest of his life, necessarily -- not if that's the just punishment for his crime -- such as child abuse of a sufficiently severe kind. Letting the offender off too lightly might amount to a failure of Christian love. Providing material and moral support to one's parents doesn't mean letting them evade responsibility for what they've done, either. (I'm not implying that Jerry was suggesting otherwise).
Saying that the abusive parent should be damned in the next life is a more difficult matter...there are probably better ways of expressing the anger that prompts a statement like that, but the anger itself is well-earned.
The best book I've read on abuse by narcissistic parents - especially good on the less obvious kinds of abuse -- is Alice Miller's The Drama of the Gifted Child. In earlier editions it was titled Prisoners of Childhood, which is actually the more accurate title. I should add that its perspective is secular, not Catholic.

Jan 21st 2014 new
It is really hard after a breakup not to talk bad about the other person, but you have to remember that two people are in the relationship. It might be that the timing was not right for the relationship - maybe one or both people needed to grow more in the lord. Maybe both needed to pray more together and not take advantage of each other?Maybe you feel that you need to be needed by someone who is a bird with a broken wing to make you feel useful and productive?
Jan 21st 2014 new
(quote) Deborah-1051053 said: It is really hard after a breakup not to talk bad about the other person, but you have to remember that two people are in the relationship. It might be that the timing was not right for the relationship - maybe one or both people needed to grow more in the lord. Maybe both needed to pray more together and not take advantage of each other?Maybe you feel that you need to be needed by someone who is a bird with a broken wing to make you feel useful and productive?
very warm welcome Deborah to the fora smile wave
Jan 21st 2014 new
(quote) Paul-1049651 said: I'm not sure that your position and Jerry's can't be reconciled. It's not a failure of Christian love to incarcerate a criminal for the rest of his life, necessarily -- not if that's the just punishment for his crime -- such as child abuse of a sufficiently severe kind. Letting the offender off too lightly might amount to a failure of Christian love. Providing material and moral support to one's parents doesn't mean letting them evade responsibility for what they've done, either. (I'm not implying that Jerry was suggesting otherwise).
Saying that the abusive parent should be damned in the next life is a more difficult matter...there are probably better ways of expressing the anger that prompts a statement like that, but the anger itself is well-earned.
The best book I've read on abuse by narcissistic parents - especially good on the less obvious kinds of abuse -- is Alice Miller's The Drama of the Gifted Child. In earlier editions it was titled Prisoners of Childhood, which is actually the more accurate title. I should add that its perspective is secular, not Catholic.

I have read parts of Alice Miller's book and I agree with her philosophy on the consequences of the abused child. I am grateful she does not insist that before having children a person must be "fully healed" from their emotional injuries as this would take away from God's power to heal. Some experts on child abuse do not agree with her in this regard. She was way ahead of her time when she wrote her book and broke alot of barriers in regards to the importance of nurturing the young child.

My biggest gripe with parents who abuse and/or neglect their children is that their children get emotionally "stuck" at a young age, usually three. Though the individual has the body and intellect (many are VERY intelligent) of a three year old, they have the emotional maturity level of a three year old. And how is an emotional three year old able to understand the concept of honoring their parents as God intended, according to the 4th commandment? THEY CAN'T, not when they are still trying to "please" the God-like parent that exists in their three year old mind.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg. They have workplace problems, interpersonal relationship problems, and the list goes on and on.

The parents should NOT be allowed access to their children. Yes there is forgiveness, but that is between them and God.


Jan 21st 2014 new
(quote) Ann-1035042 said: Maybe I'm just being persnickety here, but when you wrote "not ready or worthy" I felt the need to say that none of us are really ever "worthy" of anything. Being a good person does not makes us deserve anything, yes your are more likely to find love if you don't have baggage and are a kind & loving person, but you don't intrinsically deserve it more. That's why love is so special, we receive it even when we don't deserve it. Same goes for the love we receive from God. I would never say I deserve the love God gives me, but He gives it to me anyway, which amazes me. When we focus on what we or others deserve it starts to ruin the act of love (at least in my opinion).

Ann, I think you and Marge are both right. It's true that love is self sacrificing and that none of us deserve God's love. But it's also true that romantic love or marital love is meant to be mutual, and some people really are not ready for that because they are too selfish.



Jan 21st 2014 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: I have read parts of Alice Miller's book and I agree with her philosophy on the consequences of the abused child. I am grateful she does not insist that before having children a person must be "fully healed" from their emotional injuries as this would take away from God's power to heal. Some experts on child abuse do not agree with her in this regard. She was way ahead of her time when she wrote her book and broke alot of barriers in regards to the importance of nurturing the young child.

My biggest gripe with parents who abuse and/or neglect their children is that their children get emotionally "stuck" at a young age, usually three. Though the individual has the body and intellect (many are VERY intelligent) of a three year old, they have the emotional maturity level of a three year old. And how is an emotional three year old able to understand the concept of honoring their parents as God intended, according to the 4th commandment? THEY CAN'T, not when they are still trying to "please" the God-like parent that exists in their three year old mind.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg. They have workplace problems, interpersonal relationship problems, and the list goes on and on.

The parents should NOT be allowed access to their children. Yes there is forgiveness, but that is between them and God.


Great comment, though the problem of forgiveness exists on two levels, doesn't it? - between the offender and God, and between the offender and his victim(s).
I think at one point in the book Miller says (again, writing from a secular perspective, but still reflecting her clinical excperience) that 'full healing' is not even possible, that 'the work of mourning' will have to be done over and over at intervals throughout the victim's life. Whether she's right about that or not, I give her big points for never flinching from the depth of the injuries inflicted by the narcissistic parent. That woman was constitutionally incapable of sugar-coating anything.
Jan 23rd 2014 new
(quote) Sara-979131 said: Heard this line from a movie recently and thought of this thread. Interestingly, this movie was filmed just blocks from my house. Or at least the majority of it. I remember people in the community mentioning they spotted Robert De Niro.

Look, sometimes its OK with girls like this, they wanna have fun, and sometimes its not because they've got a broken wing and theyre hurt and theyre an easy target. In this case, this particular case, I think that wing is being fixed, my friend, and you gotta make sure that its mended and youre getting in the way of that right now, okay, because shes sensitive and shes smart, shes artistic. This is a great girl, you gotta be respectful to that. Come on, let me walk you to your car, youre a better guy than this.



Funny Sara,
The director came to my house and was considering shooting the movie here. sigh! The staircase was too narrow for camera equipment.
Jan 23rd 2014 new
What movie was this?
Jan 23rd 2014 new
(quote) Lina-796057 said: What movie was this?
Silver Linings Playbook directed by David O Russell. His scout showed up at my door. David came by later with his creative team to spec out the house. Funny, but he was taken by a photo of all my children in the dining room. He actually took a picture of my picture. Too bad they didn't use us, but it still makes for an amusing anecdote. Would have loved to have rubbed shoulders with DeNiro.
Posts 81 - 90 of 116