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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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Mar 7th 2014 new
(quote) Lauren-927923 said: I am posting the URL for the blog below ONLY because it addresses this situation and provides a number of links for additional information. It came to my attention via another media source. But, from people that I know love the TLM and have almost exclusively attended the TLM -- although they are themselves finding some things akin to Onlyism -- which this blog addresses, that concerns them as well.

I have no intention of battling about this subject - because quite frankly I don't get it -- the separation that is. I love the Mass period. And, I am grateful, that even despite the shortage of priests I have access to Mass in many places and at many times and in many languages -- including the TLM. (I know the TLM is more than just a Mass said in Latin).

I thought perhaps this might provide another perspective on the situation and on the larger issues we seem to be encountering. the blog is well written and provides acceptable links. I hope it gives all of us some fodder for pondering and reflection.


http://scottericalt.com/why-latin-mass-onlyists-are-destroying-the-latin-mass/


That was an excellent article from Scott Eric Alt. Thanks for posting it.

He has put into words exactly what I have been thinking about the "Latin Mass Onlyists" (as he calls them) for some time now, the TLM and the damage that is being done (IMHO) by the Onlyists to the Catholic Church and future use of the TLM... Onlyists endangering the future/continued use of the TLM by practically claiming superiority over all others, especially those attending the Novus Ordo Mass. In my humble opinion, if the TLM ever falls out of use, it will be because the "Onlyists" have forced it to happen by effectively claiming superiority (of the TLM) and effectively claiming invalid the NO Mass and most everything following from Vatican-II.



Below are several paragraphs copied from the article that I think are right on the mark:
Quoting...
Yes. And so when Bishop Olson acts in the way he does, Rorate has no right to yelp as it does. The enemies of the Latin Mass are the Onlyists  not Pope Francis, not Bishop Olson, but a faction of Onlyists and their anonymous defenders who write poison without the courage of their names.
3.
So Benedict XVI issued a motu proprio in 2007 for the sake of those attached to the usus antiquior who also accept the authority of Vatican II. Summorum Pontificum was never meant to prop up Onlyism. Thus Bishop Olson felt that he had to suspend the Latin Mass at Fisher More.

But when suspect blogs like Rorate Cli raise the stink that they do, one begins to feel that many who promote the Latin Mass do not do so with upright intentions but rather as a sword with which to rend good (Tridentine) Catholic from bad (Novus Ordo) Catholic. To do so is, in fact, blasphemy against the Mass.

Earler this week, Lisa Graas posted this blog article, in which she explained why folks like those at Rorate Cli have the effect of keeping her miles away from a Latin Mass:
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Who wants to be around people like this, who pounce on everything that doesnt initially smell right as if it is heresy? Since I have never attended an EF Mass, I have a feeling that I would seem very out of place there and I dread the protests I would receive to my face given the many uproars we see over things like what Bishop Olson is doing. If you dont play nice with other people, I dont want to be around you. Sorry. Thats how I feel about it.
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Such a plaint puts me in mind of the kind of thin-skinned and self-righteous vitriol regularly published by N.C. Anonymous. N.C. refers to the usus antiquior as the Mass of the saints. One would think that no one who attends the Novus Ordo could ever be a saint. One would forget that the Tridentine was not the Mass of St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas. (Or the apostles, for that matter.) N.C. describes Bishop Olsons actions as a naked power grab by a young bishop who clearly has a lot to learn about the politics of abusing authority, and the bishop himself as an intolerant bishop who should know better. As though Rorate sits in judgment on bishops. N.C. refers to good people (like Lisa Graas) as some Catholics who purposely and poorly disguise themselves as orthodox. As though N.C. is the arbiter of orthodoxy, and not the Church.

Who wants to be around that crowd? It is poison to the soul. If thats the kind of attitude an advocate of the Latin Mass has  if thats what you read on their blogs and hear on their tongues  then I dont want to go near a Latin Mass, either. (For the record, I do attend the old form of the Mass once a month.) I love the Latin Mass; I want it to be more common  just as I loved the KJV and wanted more people to read it.

But what is happening in the Catholic Church is that the Latin Mass is becoming the province of a faction of spiteful, spitting lobbyists. The Latin Mass is becoming associated with those who view Vatican II as an invalid council and think that people who attend the Novus Ordo are lesser Catholics; who act as though the Latin Mass somehow makes them better and superior and more holy, and their halo more sure, perhaps even complete. That (not the Latin Mass itself) is the danger to your soul to which Bishop Olson referred in his letter to Mr. King.

Onlyism is  like its Protestant counterpart  the greatest enemy the Latin Mass has. It is Onlyism that is causing bishops, including the pope, to restrict the Latin Mass. It is Onlyism that is causing Catholics who might otherwise learn to love its beauty to stay far away. A great Mass, whose beauty should be preserved, is acquiring a stink from those who reject a council and the new Mass and look down on their brother and sister Catholics.
Those who truly love the Latin Mass must save it from the Onlyists.
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Ed
Mar 7th 2014 new
I am not hiding in the shadows. I am right out here in the open. I have faith in God, but not in man. Read the article posted by me. Catholics have lost the faith. Doesn't that matter to you? I am not making that up. It is straight from the Vatican. Please explain how those facts are "letting in the Holy Spirit".

Incredibly, personal attacks are what I expect from this. I see how that works on this site. Nothing here has changed.

You hardly know me. I am making statements based on my own failings and experience. I think it stinks that people are despising what for over centuries was the true worship accepted by the Universal church as from the hand of God. Changed at a council who whisperers say was a Freemason. Why can't we have an honest discussion about that? Where are the "fruits" of the Council? I will not hash this out here. I would like the bishops to however. Enjoy your Lent.
Mar 7th 2014 new
Ed, thank you for your post. I so agree.
Mar 7th 2014 new
As 'fighters' working out our salvation, it is tempting to have this mindset in other areas of our life. It can become a habit to look for a fight and develop a prideful attitude about many things. Perhaps too it has something to do with the choleric temperament; I am just over half choleric and I know the temptation is there to look for battles where there needn't be any. Staying true to Holy Mother the Church is the only solution.
Mar 7th 2014 new
In a further attempt to provide as accurate a picture as I can from official sources on this matter, I supply the page of Fisher Moore College on this matter. This includes the following:

  • A statement from the Board of Visitors regarding the matter
  • A statement from President Michael King responding to Taylor Marshall
  • A statement on the Financial Management and Recent Transactions
  • A Timeline of Masses and Chaplains (one of whom served at my parish, which I mentioned)
  • List of College Chaplains since 2010
  • Facing East: The Theological Orientation of the College
  • A List of College Speakers since 2012-2014
Some speculation has been made of the appearance of Fr. Gruner, with statements that he was suspended a divinis. The College responded by stating that it checked the public record, and confirmed his own letters ordaining (in 1995) and reaffirming (four years later) his incardination in the diocese of Hyderabad. In any event, he was there to speak and not to perform priestly ministry.

fishermore.edu

Mar 7th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-1049651 said: Of course He will find faith on earth -- whether it will be the faith of a billion or a million or of twelve is secondary. Since you raise the point: what do you think has led the people you love to abandon the Church?
Twelve???
I don't like those odds...
Mar 7th 2014 new
(quote) Tom-112790 said: Twelve???
I don't like those odds...
Oh, I don't know; we STARTED with 12, of whom one was a crushing (albeit essential) disappointment :)
Mar 7th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-1049651 said: Oh, I don't know; we STARTED with 12, of whom one was a crushing (albeit essential) disappointment :)
...and only one showed up at the Foot of the Cross...
Mar 8th 2014 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: In a further attempt to provide as accurate a picture as I can from official sources on this matter, I supply the page of Fisher Moore College on this matter. This includes the following:

A statement from the Board of Visitors regarding the matterA statement from President Michael King responding to Taylor MarshallA statement on the Financial Management and Recent TransactionsA Timeline of Masses and Chaplains (one of whom served at my parish, which I mentioned)List of College Chaplains since 2010Facing East: The Theological Orientation of the CollegeA List of College Speakers since 2012-2014Some speculation has been made of the appearance of Fr. Gruner, with statements that he was suspended a divinis. The College responded by stating that it checked the public record, and confirmed his own letters ordaining (in 1995) and reaffirming (four years later) his incardination in the diocese of Hyderabad. In any event, he was there to speak and not to perform priestly ministry.

http://fishermore.edu/welcome/

... And what is found at the bottom of the home page (of your link) to Fisher Moore College? ..... A prominent link to that nasty, vitriol-spewing Rorate Caeli web site. That says a lot to me. Why is Fisher Moore College linking to such a site that is constantly complaining about most post-Vatican-II popes, most things concerning Vatican-II and evil-of-evils the Novus Ordo Mass? It makes no sense to me. Fisher Moore College should not be complicit in spreading such discord within the Catholic Church. They should remove such links from their site, as they give the appearance (especially to their students) of condoning such actions of Rorate Caeli.

The more I see, the more I am siding with the bishop on this one.

Ed
Mar 8th 2014 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: ... And what is found at the bottom of the home page (of your link) to Fisher Moore College? ..... A prominent link to that nasty, vitriol-spewing Rorate Caeli web site. That says a lot to me. Why is Fisher Moore College linking to such a site that is constantly complaining about most post-Vatican-II popes, most things concerning Vatican-II and evil-of-evils the Novus Ordo Mass? It makes no sense to me. Fisher Moore College should not be complicit in spreading such discord within the Catholic Church. They should remove such links from their site, as they give the appearance (especially to their students) of condoning such actions of Rorate Caeli.

The more I see, the more I am siding with the bishop on this one.

Ed
... And if someone says that a web site link to the Rorate Caili site (on the Fisher Moore College web site) does not indicate any bad thing >>>> Would they have the same opinion if instead of a link to Rorate Caili, it was a link to the Planned Parenthood web site? I highly doubt it.

Ed
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