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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Thought provoking article

Mar 29th 2014 new
This is from Remnant newspaper:

remnantnewspaper.com

Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: This is from Remnant newspaper:

http://remnantnewspaper.com/2011-0331-statement-of-reservations-beatification.htm

Just the rantings of another self-styled traditionalist who claims to accept the authenticity of the Pope in question, still rolling eyes rolling eyes insists on trying to point out that, you know, he really was not very orthodox.

After al,he did not control every one of the billion plus Catholics, why not even the few thousand bishops and the tens of thousands of priests.

It never enters his pinhead that even Christ, who is God, chose 12 men, one of whom was Judas. That is a far higher percentage of "mistakes" than existed under John Paul II.

I'll bet his rant against John XXIII is a pip too.

Here is a more though provoking fact. When Pope John XXIII and JP II are canonized, their canonization will constitute an infallible pronouncement by Pope Francis, that these two men are so worthy, that despite any human failings they may have had, God deemed them such fine examples of sanctity that He is allowing His Church to tell all that they achieved what we all hope to achieve. That unlike most of us, they did not require much purgation before achieving the goal.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Just the rantings of another self-styled traditionalist who claims to accept the authenticity of the Pope in question, still insists on trying to point out that, you know, he really was not very orthodox.

After al,he did not control every one of the billion plus Catholics, why not even the few thousand bishops and the tens of thousands of priests.

It never enters his pinhead that even Christ, who is God, chose 12 men, one of whom was Judas. That is a far higher percentage of "mistakes" than existed under John Paul II.

I'll bet his rant against John XXIII is a pip too.

Here is a more though provoking fact. When Pope John XXIII and JP II are canonized, their canonization will constitute an infallible pronouncement by Pope Francis, that these two men are so worthy, that despite any human failings they may have had, God deemed them such fine examples of sanctity that He is allowing His Church to tell all that they achieved what we all hope to achieve. That unlike most of us, they did not require much purgation before achieving the goal.
Now come on Paul....you can't honestly say that Judas being chosen constitutes "far more mistakes than John Paul II". Judas was chosen by God to fulfill scripture about the Son of Man being betrayed. Also, while Jesus did associate with sinners he never said " come as you are and then stay as you are". I can see why there is concern about kissing the Quran.
Mar 30th 2014 new
I'm a little concerned that you would say Judas' being chosen was a mistake. That's just wrong.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: Now come on Paul....you can't honestly say that Judas being chosen constitutes "far more mistakes than John Paul II". Judas was chosen by God to fulfill scripture about the Son of Man being betrayed. Also, while Jesus did associate with sinners he never said " come as you are and then stay as you are". I can see why there is concern about kissing the Quran.
So, according to you, God pre-ordained that Judas was to be a serious sinner, who was less than honest in carrying out hsi duties and the Apostles' treasurer and to be Christ's betrayer. That God created him with no free will.

If I am not mistaken, that view of predestination has been soundly condemned by the Church.

As far as the kissing of Koran: first there is no proof that he did so. Even if he did, it would have been a sign of respect for the other person's beliefs, not an endorsement of those beliefs.

I guess Christ was not being specific when He said, that He would be with the Church until the end of the world and that hell would not prevail.

I love the pride displayed by the self-styled traditionalists. They and only they know what is right, They and only they correctly interpret every act by any priest, bishop or Pope. They and only they know that God was wrong when He chose Karl to be Jonhn Paul II. They, and only they, know who should or should not be infallibly declared to be a saint. The unmitigated gall of everyone to disregard their superior intelligence.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: This is from Remnant newspaper:

http://remnantnewspaper.com/2011-0331-statement-of-reservations-beatification.htm

The Remnant article that you referenced should no longer be "thought provoking" ..... as you wrote.


The time to raise questions and concerns about the canonization of Pope JPII has come and is gone. The fact is that the canonization of JPII has already been infallibly pronounced to occur in a few short days/weeks. For any Catholic/s to further express doubt or reservations about his canonization is to not accept the infallibility of the pope (on this matter) and the legitimate authority of the Vatican committee that has helped to decide this matter. Shame on this/those Catholics. This is an instance of such a Catholic believing their self to be "more Catholic than the pope" (my words) or possessing superior judgement to the pope and the committee that concluded that JPII is worthy of canonization. Again.... Shame on those Catholics (IMHO).


Ed
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: So, according to you, God pre-ordained that Judas was to be a serious sinner, who was less than honest in carrying out hsi duties and the Apostles' treasurer and to be Christ's betrayer. That God created him with no free will.

If I am not mistaken, that view of predestination has been soundly condemned by the Church.

As far as the kissing of Koran: first there is no proof that he did so. Even if he did, it would have been a sign of respect for the other person's beliefs, not an endorsement of those beliefs.

I guess Christ was not being specific when He said, that He would be with the Church until the end of the world and that hell would not prevail.

I love the pride displayed by the self-styled traditionalists. They and only they know what is right, They and only they correctly interpret every act by any priest, bishop or Pope. They and only they know that God was wrong when He chose Karl to be Jonhn Paul II. They, and only they, know who should or should not be infallibly declared to be a saint. The unmitigated gall of everyone to disregard their superior intelligence.
"......even Christ, who is God, chose 12 men, one of whom was Judas. That is a far higher percentage of "mistakes" than existed under John Paul II." (Paul, 2014).

First of all, this sentence implies that implies that Christ himself wasn't as good a pope as John Paul II. No, Christ is God and He founded the Church. How can you say that Judas being chosen was a mistake?
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: Now come on Paul....you can't honestly say that Judas being chosen constitutes "far more mistakes than John Paul II". Judas was chosen by God to fulfill scripture about the Son of Man being betrayed. Also, while Jesus did associate with sinners he never said " come as you are and then stay as you are". I can see why there is concern about kissing the Quran.
Saint Peter denied Christ three times (of his own free will).... yet Christ still saw fit to name Peter to lead his Church. If JPII had done such a thing (as Peter did), I suspect that some would be up in arms that JPII could even be a legitimate pope.


Ed
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: Now come on Paul....you can't honestly say that Judas being chosen constitutes "far more mistakes than John Paul II". Judas was chosen by God to fulfill scripture about the Son of Man being betrayed. Also, while Jesus did associate with sinners he never said " come as you are and then stay as you are". I can see why there is concern about kissing the Quran.
Judas was not created without free will.

Ed
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: The Remnant article that you referenced should no longer be "thought provoking" ..... as you wrote.


The time to raise questions and concerns about the canonization of Pope JPII has come and is gone. The fact is that the canonization of JPII has already been infallibly pronounced to occur in a few short days/weeks. For any Catholic/s to further express doubt or reservations about his canonization is to not accept the infallibility of the pope (on this matter) and the legitimate authority of the Vatican committee that has helped to decide this matter. Shame on this/those Catholics. This is an instance of such a Catholic believing their self to be "more Catholic than the pope" (my words) or possessing superior judgement to the pope and the committee that concluded that JPII is worthy of canonization. Again.... Shame on those Catholics (IMHO).


Ed
Simply pointing out events out is not denying papal infallibility. The dogma is specifically: "The pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra". Questioning why someone would kiss the quran is not denying papal infallibility.



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