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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: This is from Remnant newspaper:

http://remnantnewspaper.com/2011-0331-statement-of-reservations-beatification.htm

By the fruits you shall know them. And no pathetic attempt by this Remnant article can mitigate away the radiant fruits Blessed Pope John Paul II offered the Catholic Church...and the world. His long profound legacy speaks for itself. The person who wrote this piece can wish to "provoke" all he wants, but his attempts are futile, much like the assassin who tried to silence Pope John Paul II's pontificate on May 13, 1981. Our Lady of Fatima has already shown favor upon her dearly beloved servant who entrusted his life and pontificate to her - "Totus Tuus". Sure as the bullet meant to kill our Holy Father instead now sits in Our Lady's crown at Fatima, feeble and shameful attempts to muddy the legacy of her favored priest-son is futile.

For me, he was the holiest man who ever walked the earth in my lifetime. I miss his very presence and guidance on this earth. I pray to him every single day...without fail...and can't wait for April 27! It will be a blessed day!
Holy Papa, pray for us! pope
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Mary-486033 said: By the fruits you shall know them. And no pathetic attempt by this Remnant article can mitigate away the radiant fruits Blessed Pope John Paul II offered the Catholic Church...and the world. His long profound legacy speaks for itself. The person who wrote this piece can wish to "provoke" all he wants, but his attempts are futile, much like the assassin who tried to silence Pope John Paul II's pontificate on May 13, 1981. Our Lady of Fatima has already shown favor upon her dearly beloved servant who entrusted his life and pontificate to her - "Totus Tuus". Sure as the bullet meant to kill our Holy Father instead now sits in Our Lady's crown at Fatima, feeble and shameful attempts to muddy the legacy of her favored priest-son is futile.

For me, he was the holiest man who ever walked the earth in my lifetime. I miss his very presence and guidance on this earth. I pray to him every single day...without fail...and can't wait for April 27! It will be a blessed day!
Holy Papa, pray for us!
If you believe that was the author's intent why don't you write to them? If you actually read the article, he does mention how much John Paul II contributed to fighting the culture of death.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: Of course, canonization is a big deal. I did not state that it was not. You are making up things if you believe that I am rounding numbers (as you state). It would not be accurate to say that JPII was NOT a saint today but will be a saint in a few weeks.... That would imply that he has a few weeks to "finish up" in Purgatory (yet). He will be recognized as the saint that he already is .... in a few short weeks. That IS a big deal.

The committee and the pope cannot come to the conclusion that JPII will have finished up his final weeks in Purgatory in a few weeks. That doesn't even make sense. They have determined that he already meets the thresh-hold of sainthood, which is why they scheduled the canonization. I give up on explaining this further.

Ed
My point is simply that the on April 27 it will officially dogma.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: "......even Christ, who is God, chose 12 men, one of whom was Judas. That is a far higher percentage of "mistakes" than existed under John Paul II." (Paul, 2014).

First of all, this sentence implies that implies that Christ himself wasn't as good a pope as John Paul II. No, Christ is God and He founded the Church. How can you say that Judas being chosen was a mistake?
Sorry, I did not say the choice of Judas was a mistake. it was just a way of pointing out the absurdity of your position that somehow, JPII was responsible, as you you insisted, for absolutely anything that may have gone wrong during his pontificate.

Far more things went wrong in the appointment of Bishops, for example, under Paul VI. According to the evaluations of the self-styled traditionalists per what they have said in these forums, he was far worse than JPII since he destroyed the Mass with the abomination called the Novus Ordo. Yet heaven appears to be telling us that he to is to eventually be canonized . The miracle required for him to be declared Blessed has already been approved by the Commission responsible and it now up to Pope Francis to decide.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: The fact is that the canonization of JPII has already been infallibly pronounced to occur in a few short days/weeks. For any Catholic/s to further express doubt or reservations about his canonization is to not accept the infallibility of the pope (on this matter) and the legitimate authority of the Vatican committee that has helped to decide this matter. 
Unless you can demonstrate how enlisting a name into the canon of the saints and raising a person to the honors of the altar is done ex cathedra in this day in age, then you can't make such a claim.

A person cannot come to the conclusion that the Holy Father is having recourse to his infallible magisterium based upon the current canonization formula.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: That's what you take from it.
That is not what Ed, took from your statement. It is exactly the statement you made, it has no other meaning. You could argue that is not what you meant, but it is exactly what you said.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: So, according to you, God pre-ordained that Judas was to be a serious sinner, who was less than honest in carrying out hsi duties and the Apostles' treasurer and to be Christ's betrayer. That God created him with no free will.

If I am not mistaken, that view of predestination has been soundly condemned by the Church.

As far as the kissing of Koran: first there is no proof that he did so. Even if he did, it would have been a sign of respect for the other person's beliefs, not an endorsement of those beliefs.

I guess Christ was not being specific when He said, that He would be with the Church until the end of the world and that hell would not prevail.

I love the pride displayed by the self-styled traditionalists. They and only they know what is right, They and only they correctly interpret every act by any priest, bishop or Pope. They and only they know that God was wrong when He chose Karl to be Jonhn Paul II. They, and only they, know who should or should not be infallibly declared to be a saint. The unmitigated gall of everyone to disregard their superior intelligence.
I actually find his long-standing approbation and proximity to Marcel Maciel much more of a testimony against his possible sanctity than anything else.

Plus, the current canonization formula does not meet the requirements that the First Vatican Council laid out for ex cathedra teachings.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) ED-20630 said: The article ceased to be "thought provoking" (as to whether JPII is worthy of canonization) the moment that Pope Francis announced that JPII's canonization was scheduled to occur on a particular date. It is a settled matter. It is not even a remote possibility that this decision would be reversed. I dare say that I think it would be a impossible task to find, in the 2000 year history of the Church, where such a decision has ever been reversed.
Actually, Ed, the decision can be reversed. Pope Paul VI's possible beatification came up years ago, but then was taken off the table due to the great body of evidence of things contrary to heroic Christian virtue in his pontificate.

I don't believe that Pope John Paul II's canonization will be taken off the table, though. I'm not in the least saying that I don't hope that he's enjoying the beatific vision right now, but his pontificate was not really one that was demonstrative of heroic Christian virtue, either. He was merely popular and well-liked by the secular media.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I actually find his long-standing approbation and proximity to Marcel Maciel much more of a testimony against his possible sanctity than anything else.

Plus, the current canonization formula does not meet the requirements that the First Vatican Council laid out for ex cathedra teachings.
Good point Chelsea. Very well written.
Mar 30th 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: No. The techinical difference IS a big deal. Beatification means that public veneration is now permitted; canonization means that saint status is dogma. Stating that because it is near ergo it's happened, is the same thing as rounding of numbers.

Greg - where in the world did you come up with this notion of canonization? Canonization literally means adding a person's name to the "canon" (universally accepted register) of saints. It's not synonymous with dogmatizing in anything that I've EVER come across (in fact, the formula fails to meet the requirements for an ex cathedra teaching, as well).

If you have further information which demonstrates your position, I'd love to see it. Thanks.
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