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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Mar 30th 2014 new
Also don't forget: just because someone is made a saint doesn't mean they are exempt from errors. It is perfectly OK to point out errors. People often refer to how St. Augustine was a sexual sinner as being his error. So it will also be done with the kissing of the Quran. I don't care what anyone's subjective feelings are.
Mar 31st 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: Also don't forget: just because someone is made a saint doesn't mean they are exempt from errors. It is perfectly OK to point out errors. People often refer to how St. Augustine was a sexual sinner as being his error. So it will also be done with the kissing of the Quran. I don't care what anyone's subjective feelings are.
No one has ever stated here, implied here or insinuated here that any saint was without sin or error in their lifetime, so I see no point in you reminding that we "don't forget" this.

.... of course, the Virgin Mary was without sin in her lifetime, but she is not the topic of discussion here.


Ed
Mar 31st 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: Also don't forget: just because someone is made a saint doesn't mean they are exempt from errors. It is perfectly OK to point out errors. People often refer to how St. Augustine was a sexual sinner as being his error. So it will also be done with the kissing of the Quran. I don't care what anyone's subjective feelings are.
Greg,

The whole point of, and the exact title of the Remnant article which you referenced was "A Statement of Reservations Concerning the Impending Beatification of Pope John Paul II".

It was not the authors intent to merely point out that JPII was not "exempt from errors" in his lifetime. It was the intent of the author to point out reasons why JPII should not be beatified. These are two completely different intents.


Ed
Mar 31st 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: If you believe that was the author's intent why don't you write to them? If you actually read the article, he does mention how much John Paul II contributed to fighting the culture of death.
Yes, I do believe it is the Remnant's intent to discredit Blessed Pope John Paul ll and voice their displeasure with his canonization. Reading other articles they've written about Pope John Paul ll confirms the same. On March 28th they wrote:

"Beyond personal popularity with the world, however, lie deeper questions over whether either of these men would meet the Traditional standards for beatification or canonization. This is due to the unprecedented and novel acts of both popes, as well as the undeniably disastrous fruits of both of their pontificates."

I've seen enough biased and erroneous narratives on another topic by the Remnant and fully realize writing to them would be a complete waste of my time. I honestly have no such interest as it serves no purpose. I'm not going to change their minds and they aren't going to change mine about the sanctity of Blessed Pope John Paul II. All I care about is the decision reached by the Congregation for the Causes of the Saints...and the Supreme Pontiff's...as well as my own personal experience of Pope John Paul ll.
Mar 31st 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: If you believe that was the author's intent why don't you write to them? If you actually read the article, he does mention how much John Paul II contributed to fighting the culture of death.
Greg,

Of course that was the author's intent.

Did you not read the title of his article (repeated again here, just for you):
"A Statement of Reservations Concerning the Impending Beatification of Pope John Paul II".

You are the one who referenced the article in the first place. Certainly, you must have paid attention to the title of the article. rolling eyes


Ed
Mar 31st 2014 new
(quote) Chelsea-743484 said: ..."but his pontificate was not really one that was demonstrative of heroic Christian virtue, either. He was merely popular and well-liked by the secular media."
Chelsea,

I couldn't disagree more. I consider myself very blessed to have experienced many years of the pontificate of Blessed Pope John Paul ll, and what I've witnessed clearly demonstrated that the world was intensely drawn to him because of his holiness. This has absolutely nothing to do with a so-called notion of secular "popularity".

I've always believed that he was "more than a Pope". I longed to see him. I would think, "If only I could touch his robe"! But neither happened.

When he died, a priest from St. John Neumann's Shrine in Philadelphia flew to Rome for his funeral and met up with his friend - Cardinal Ratzinger! He brought a huge suitcase of medals back to Philly which had been touched to Pope John Paul ll's tomb and blessed by Cardinal Ratzinger. I was privileged to receive such medals and treasure them. I now have a piece of Pope John Paul's robe which I cherish. I knew. I just knew...




Mar 31st 2014 new
Yes, Catholics were drawn to him for holiness. That does not change the fact however, that the secular media sought to spin the interfaith dialogue into a justification for multiculturalism i.e. all religions and cultures are equal.
Mar 31st 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: Yes, Catholics were drawn to him for holiness. That does not change the fact however, that the secular media sought to spin the interfaith dialogue into a justification for multiculturalism i.e. all religions and cultures are equal.
There will always be secular media that will always spin the words and actions of any pope to suit their purposes. JPII certainly never said or implied that "all religions and cultures are equal" (as you wrote). If one believes that he did say/imply this, then they are believing the spin that is spewed out by that same secular media.

There have been numerous times on this CM site (since Pope Francis was elected) that CM members have believed the spin of the secular media (about him, his words, his actions, his intentions) rather than doing proper research from trustworthy sources and reading the ACTUAL WORDS of the pope. This is the fault of that misinformed/biased media and the fault of those CM members. It is not the fault of the pope (any pope) that his actual words and actual deeds are spun and then gobbled up by willing recipients.

Ed
Mar 31st 2014 new
(quote) Greg-902815 said: Yes, Catholics were drawn to him for holiness. That does not change the fact however, that the secular media sought to spin the interfaith dialogue into a justification for multiculturalism i.e. all religions and cultures are equal.
Greg,

The article you posted, which we have been exclusively discussing from the onset, was written by Catholics, not the secular media. It's disheartening when secular journalists distort the Pope's words and actions, but truly disturbing when it's done by Catholics to spin their own agenda.
Mar 31st 2014 new
HI Mary,

Could not agree with you more. And, then to add a couple of pennies to the discussion :-)

This entire exchange and the charges against JPII remind me of something equally as scandalous that Christ did. . . he met a Samaritan woman at the well and spoke to her. . . met her at the well -- shocking behavior as this was where lovers sometimes met --- a Samaritan woman nonetheless and he spoke with her and he sent her to tell others. . . and the apostles objected because of how it looked, but He did it anyway. . . and through those actions they came to believe the Samaritans that is. . .
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