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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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Apr 7th 2014 new
Good morning Kathy,

1) Thank you for your response. OK, I got my thoughts from various articles over the years and had the impression that things were loosened up taking more factors into consideration somewhat after Vatican II:

www.americancatholic.org

2) Well I have learnt a little in this department as you also have. I'm what you call a widower My late wife had her previous marriage annuled to marry me in the Catholic church and one sister and two aunts got their marriages annulled. These annulments took anywhere from 4 months in my case to 10 years in one of my aunt's case.

Michael
Apr 7th 2014 new
(quote) Kathy-730470 said: I do not believe annulments are easier to get now than they used to be. 
That would depend on which metrics you're drawing your comparison from. In comparison to a civil divorce, you'd be right. Annulments are much more difficult to get. However, in comparison to the standards by which annulments were granted pre-Vatican II, getting an annulment today is as easy as getting a judge to sign-off on a no-fault divorce agreement.

The grounds for annulments have been so broadened since 1962 that virtually anyone who applies for one will be granted it. Taking nothing away from those whose marriages were TRULY invalid, but an annulment today is barely more than a Catholic divorce because the Church has allowed the argument that the breakdown of the marriage after the vows were exchanged to be redefined as a condition that existed before the marriage took place, thus satisfying the requirement that states that an impediment must exist at the time the marriage takes place for the marriage to be deemed invalid. By today's standards, practically anything that goes wrong in a marriage at any time can be defined as a condition that existed but was unknown at the time the marriage took place. Many Catholics, in their desire to separate from their (perhaps) abusive and/or unhealthy marriages, have bought and continue to buy into this false argument.

This is yet another result of yet another case of extreme recklessness on the part of the Bishops, who were more concerned with maintaining a declining congregation than accounting for the unintended consequences that would come and have come a thousandfold as a result of their shortsightedness. Now, while they're STILL trying to maintain the same declining congregation that they were trying to maintain 50 years ago, they're trying to undo the un-reversible damage that has been done due to their previous decisions.


theheart
Apr 7th 2014 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Oh, yes, I think that is excellent advice!
The pond at the local bar or race track is usually quite different from the pond at the library or church or volunteering at the food pantry or homeless shelter, etc, although there can be overlapping of course, but the chances of a better 'catch' differ greatly pond to pond!
Even though I wasn't their to fish I was their to save babies and mums The pro-life pond is a pretty good pond.
Apr 7th 2014 new
(quote) Victor-544727 said: That would depend on which metrics you're drawing your comparison from. In comparison to a civil divorce, you'd be right. Annulments are much more difficult to get. However, in comparison to the standards by which annulments were granted pre-Vatican II, getting an annulment today is as easy as getting a judge to sign-off on a no-fault divorce agreement.

The grounds for annulments have been so broadened since 1962 that virtually anyone who applies for one will be granted it. Taking nothing away from those whose marriages were TRULY invalid, but an annulment today is barely more than a Catholic divorce because the Church has allowed the argument that the breakdown of the marriage after the vows were exchanged to be redefined as a condition that existed before the marriage took place, thus satisfying the requirement that states that an impediment must exist at the time the marriage takes place for the marriage to be deemed invalid. By today's standards, practically anything that goes wrong in a marriage at any time can be defined as a condition that existed but was unknown at the time the marriage took place. Many Catholics, in their desire to separate from their (perhaps) abusive and/or unhealthy marriages, have bought and continue to buy into this false argument.

This is yet another result of yet another case of extreme recklessness on the part of the Bishops, who were more concerned with maintaining a declining congregation than accounting for the unintended consequences that would come and have come a thousandfold as a result of their shortsightedness. Now, while they're STILL trying to maintain the same declining congregation that they were trying to maintain 50 years ago, they're trying to undo the un-reversible damage that has been done due to their previous decisions.



Victor, I know of those who have been denied an annulment.
Apr 7th 2014 new
(quote) Victor-544727 said: That would depend on which metrics you're drawing your comparison from. In comparison to a civil divorce, you'd be right. Annulments are much more difficult to get. However, in comparison to the standards by which annulments were granted pre-Vatican II, getting an annulment today is as easy as getting a judge to sign-off on a no-fault divorce agreement.

The grounds for annulments have been so broadened since 1962 that virtually anyone who applies for one will be granted it. Taking nothing away from those whose marriages were TRULY invalid, but an annulment today is barely more than a Catholic divorce because the Church has allowed the argument that the breakdown of the marriage after the vows were exchanged to be redefined as a condition that existed before the marriage took place, thus satisfying the requirement that states that an impediment must exist at the time the marriage takes place for the marriage to be deemed invalid. By today's standards, practically anything that goes wrong in a marriage at any time can be defined as a condition that existed but was unknown at the time the marriage took place. Many Catholics, in their desire to separate from their (perhaps) abusive and/or unhealthy marriages, have bought and continue to buy into this false argument.

This is yet another result of yet another case of extreme recklessness on the part of the Bishops, who were more concerned with maintaining a declining congregation than accounting for the unintended consequences that would come and have come a thousandfold as a result of their shortsightedness. Now, while they're STILL trying to maintain the same declining congregation that they were trying to maintain 50 years ago, they're trying to undo the un-reversible damage that has been done due to their previous decisions.



Just to provide a little statistical evidence to my argument:

- In 1960, the U.S. Church granted only 300 total annulments. In 2007 alone, the U.S. church granted 35,009 annulments - a full 60% of the 58,322 total annulments granted by the Church worldwide that same year. The second most number of annulments granted in any single country that year was the 2,625 granted to Italian marrieds.

- The U.S. congregation accounts for only 6% of the entire global Church, yet account for 60% of all annulments. Africa, who accounts for 14% of the total Catholic population, account for only 0.9% of all annulments.

Numbers, although very inconvenient for some, don't lie.

theheart
Apr 7th 2014 new
(quote) Meg-920823 said: Victor, I know of those who have been denied an annulment.
The U.S. Church approves close to 90% of all annulment petitions. Of course some are denied. That doesn't change facts. Even civil courts deny some petitions.



theheart
Apr 7th 2014 new
(quote) Victor-544727 said: The U.S. Church approves close to 90% of all annulment petitions. Of course some are denied. That doesn't change facts. Even civil courts deny some petitions.




Perhaps the sad United States numbers are indicative of our narcissism?
Apr 7th 2014 new
(quote) Meg-920823 said: Perhaps the sad United States numbers are indicative of our narcissism?
Well, they're certainly indicative of something. What exactly that is is anyone's guess. boggled




theheart
Apr 7th 2014 new
Hi... I am also new in this site.. what I like most here are the moral values people sharing to us. why did you subscribe again in CM?
I believe just be yourself when you on dating. Physical attraction is the initial magic but as we go older the substance of a person is more important.
Apr 7th 2014 new
(quote) Victor-544727 said: Well, they're certainly indicative of something. What exactly that is is anyone's guess.





My point by the question is this, Victor. If there are less people in our country properly equipped to make Sacramental marriage decisions which one could argue is fairly apparent from what we see in our culture, why disparage the Church's annulment investigative process? The Church is responding to the situation in which her faithful find themselves.

The fact the percentage of affirmatives is now higher cannot with certainty be attributed to a lack of the Tribunals following Canon Law.
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