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This room is for general discussion that doesn't specifically fit into one of the other CatholicMatch rooms. Topics should not be overly serious as this is to be more of a "cafe setting."

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Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Jim-875732 said: Could we agree (doubtful) that disbelief in magesterial teachings among people who continue to call themselves Catholic is a matter of concern to the Church?
And I noticed how the sentence was phrased.........weasel words.
Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Jim-875732 said: Could we agree (doubtful) that disbelief in magesterial teachings among people who continue to call themselves Catholic is a matter of concern to the Church?

Absolutely. Pope Benedict XVI raised this point many times in his pontificate, and although many liberals turn starry-eyed at the misbegotten prospect that Pope Francis' more pastoral (and I suppose, gentler)approach amounts to an abnegation of his predecessor's teachings, it's nevertheless very true today:

"In his Angelus address Sunday, Pope Benedict XVI spoke of Judas betrayal of Christ, saying that Judas problem was failing to leave Christ when he no longer believed a falsehood, said the Pope, which is a mark of the devil.

Judas, said Pope Benedict, could have left, as many of the disciples did; indeed, he would have left if he were honest. Instead he remained with Jesus. He did not remain because of faith, or because of love, but with the secret intention of taking vengeance on the Master. "

www.lifesitenews.com.

Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Jim-875732 said: Could we agree (doubtful) that disbelief in magesterial teachings among people who continue to call themselves Catholic is a matter of concern to the Church?
You are correct in that. It is a concern to the Church, and it should be to each of us Catholics. Disbelief in magisterial teaching is to reject Christ himself. Why risk the loss of salvation because you don't agree with certain teachings? The path to hell is laid with "good intentions"; I'd rather be hated for following what is taught and conversing with others to try to change their ways than spend eternity deprived completely of God.
Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said:

Are you asking a rhetorical question? Presbyterians obviously believe that they are right, just as Catholics do.

No, it is not a rhetorical question.

Yo asserted the existence of a right to change their moral teaching. Rights exist only where they are granted by a person or organization with the authority to do so. Thus the question: what is the source of the right you perceive?

Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said: Hi Roy, How are we to know who you are addressing without the benefit of a quote?
:ook for the only other post that uses the phrase "nose in the tent". Or switch your forum view to threaded mode.

Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Charles-976166 said: yes, That is correct I spoke to a lady who left our to parish to live in Germany with her family,I found out that they institute the tax in lieu of tithing, So apparently the State acts as collection taker for the mainline churches.
Do the churches collect any money directly from the parishioners? According to one of the comments in the article, the tax is 8% of the income tax paid, not 8% of total income, so it would be significantly less than the "standard" 10% tithe.
Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Devan-877827 said:

I'm stunned by your intellectual brilliance, Jim. Carol clearly wasn't kidding when she vouched for your learned chops and your educational bonafides. The more debates we have, I'm really compelled by those one line zingers of yours to start reconsidering my adherence to orthodoxy.

You'll notice the sentence was phrased thusly: Dissenting Catholics like yourself... etc, etc. I'll let you figure it out.

Did you know, Jim, that "interviewer bias" is a major methodological/statistical phenomenon, and for instance, Americans deliberately misreport their attendance at religious services?

That and other statistical anomalies are reasons for my inference that claims of disbelief in magisterial teachings are likely more nuanced than you'd think.

While I agree with the vast majority of your posts, Devan, I, too, read the comment about not believing in the Real Presence as including Jim in the group of dissenters to which it applies.

Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Katie-792377 said: You are correct in that. It is a concern to the Church, and it should be to each of us Catholics. Disbelief in magisterial teaching is to reject Christ himself. Why risk the loss of salvation because you don't agree with certain teachings? The path to hell is laid with "good intentions"; I'd rather be hated for following what is taught and conversing with others to try to change their ways than spend eternity deprived completely of God.
I'd rather be hated for following what is taught and conversing with others to try to change their ways than spend eternity deprived completely of God.
---
Me, too.

Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: While I agree with the vast majority of your posts, Devan, I, too, read the comment about not believing in the Real Presence as including Jim in the group of dissenters to which it applies.

That's what happens when someone uses weasel words. It's a shame, really.
Jun 21st 2014 new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said: And excommunication is a rather aggressive word. Forum policies do not allow you to question another member's Catholicity.
Is this the statement you are referring to:

> dissenters are all still excommunicated, whatever their reasons for dissenting

While factually incorrect (many dissenters are not excommunicated, including those who are otherwise censured for their offense(s), even when excommunication is an available punishment), the forum policy you cite does not apply to one stating the ecclesiastical penalty for a certain offense.

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