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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Aug 13th 2014 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: Was Robin Williams Catholic?

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. -- Encyclical "Quanto conficiamur," Aug. 10, 1863, etc.

Aug 13th 2014 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: Was Robin Williams Catholic?

What difference would that make, Bernard?

To answer the question, however, he was raised Episcopalian. His mother was Christian Science.
Aug 13th 2014 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: Was Robin Williams Catholic?

This was an interesting article about the man:

www.christianpost.com.

Aug 13th 2014 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: Was Robin Williams Catholic?

Looks like he was raised Episcopalian -- Catholic light as he called it.
Aug 13th 2014 new
Of course any Catholic ought to agree that God allows us to draw closer to God through suffering, and that to presume on God's mercy is just that, presumption. But I see you are falling right into the same trap as our blogger friend, indicating, or rather indicating that one might indicate that mentally ill individuals who develop suicidal ideation have failed spiritually and are suffering the consequences of some personal sin. This is a case of pointing someone's hypothetical finger instead of one's own finger. You don't know "the vast majority" or what they suffer or how they go about it and would do well to get around to "only God knows" before laying down the law about "there may be some cases."
Aug 14th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-1049651 said: Just thinking about this...what if depression has, in fact, removed the ability to 'choose' whether or not to commit suicide, so that any suicide which occurs is more like the act of an automaton? (it would have to be that or close to that to remove culpability).
The depression could, however, be not only a cause (in this case, of suicide) but also a consequence of earlier sinful decisions -- for example, the decision to leave a marriage for an adulterous relationship with one's boss's spouse, which when discovered led to career breakdown and economic hardship; followed, perhaps, by the decision to drink heavily, which would worsen the depression even more. One would be culpable for all these sinful decisions along one's way, but that wouldn't translate into ultimate culpability for suicide following on depression so severe that the final decision was not a true decision.
And what if all these decisions along the way grew out of a childhood abuse trauma that was itself so severe that it compromised one's ability to make more constructive life choices ever afterwards?
I can only assume that a God who embodies both mercy and justice would work all this out, clearly we can't.
Just piggybacking on your post Paul. But had a thought or two on the topic.

As far as rational thinking, I think severe depression makes a truly rational choice impossible. While depression comes in many different levels, when it becomes severe enough to take one's life, I think it is definitely a mitigating factor, and I likewise, believe we have a loving God who knows what is going on in that person's heart and I leave them to His mercy.

And, second thought, there have been debates down through the centuries that those who place themselves in a situation to guarantee their martyrdom in a sense commit suicide. Not saying I agree with that, but I think it is interesting that is brought up -- partly because a purely rational mind would not choose such an option, IF the instinct for self preservation is an ultimate utility, and, therefore, a prime motivating force for choices.

We are, however, told that the greatest gift we can give another is to lay down our life for them.

The one thing I do know without a doubt is that it is a heartbreaking act, that leaves a lasting impact on those left behind.
Aug 14th 2014 new
(quote) Lauren-927923 said: Just piggybacking on your post Paul. But had a thought or two on the topic.

As far as rational thinking, I think severe depression makes a truly rational choice impossible. While depression comes in many different levels, when it becomes severe enough to take one's life, I think it is definitely a mitigating factor, and I likewise, believe we have a loving God who knows what is going on in that person's heart and I leave them to His mercy.

And, second thought, there have been debates down through the centuries that those who place themselves in a situation to guarantee their martyrdom in a sense commit suicide. Not saying I agree with that, but I think it is interesting that is brought up -- partly because a purely rational mind would not choose such an option, IF the instinct for self preservation is an ultimate utility, and, therefore, a prime motivating force for choices.

We are, however, told that the greatest gift we can give another is to lay down our life for them.

The one thing I do know without a doubt is that it is a heartbreaking act, that leaves a lasting impact on those left behind.
OP question answered. Lock up this topic. :)
Aug 14th 2014 new
(quote) Kathleen-878558 said:

Popular Blogger Pens Viral Post Calling Robin Williams Suicide a Choice Heres His Response to the Hateful and Violent Reaction He Received

http://tinyurl.com/lobzuhh

I struggle with the concept of "choice" being used in this context. Is it really someone's choice when depression has them by the neck and they see no way out, and I mean no way out? I don't know the answer; I am just posing the question. It is one that has a murky response from those who have been suicidal and/or deeply depressed. From those who have never contended with the chronic illness of depression, there can sometimes be what seems to be a cold response -> It is always a choice and always about free will.

Thoughts?

I reject the notion that suicide is a "choice" as so described. A person who is in the midst of a severe depression with active suicidal ideation needs to be hospitalized. Intense feelings of despair and hopelessness coupled with constricted thought processes equate with an incapability of reasoning and judgement along with inability to make rational choices, consequently - a danger to themselves. It is because of this newer psychological understanding that the term "committed" suicide is outdated; "death by suicide" more accurately reflects.
Aug 14th 2014 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: May I ask how you KNOW what level of reason Mr. Williams was capable of at that moment?


I don't know, Jerry.



Aug 14th 2014 new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said: I reject the notion that suicide is a "choice" as so described. A person who is in the midst of a severe depression with active suicidal ideation needs to be hospitalized. Intense feelings of despair and hopelessness coupled with constricted thought processes equate with an incapability of reasoning and judgement along with inability to make rational choices, consequently - a danger to themselves. It is because of this newer psychological understanding that the term "committed" suicide is outdated; "death by suicide" more accurately reflects.

I agree! People take these drastic measures, often because people do not care about them. I have no idea about the personal circumstances of Robin Williams but did note that he died in a separate bedroom to his wife. How many cries for help or signals requesting support would he have made in recent months?

I read a book about depression last year which included a story about a guy who wrote his suicide note before walking to the Golden Gate Bridge to jump off. He wrote that he would not jump if someone smiled at him on his way. Nobody smiled at him sad .

We live in such a hedonistic and self-centred world where we often cannot see past our own noses and see people that are suffering deeply. Rather than ringing a person, having a coffee with them, listening to them or reaching out as friends we avoid contact, avoid making eye contact with them in passing, because we are uninterested in seeing their pain, and think that their darkness will disappear without any support. After that, when people make the final drastic move of ending their lives we make pathetic patronising comments about "wishing to do more if we only knew?". People know when others are suffering. The cold hard truth is that they ignore it.

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