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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Aug 14th new
(quote) Gabor-19025 said:

I agree! People take these drastic measures, often because people do not care about them. I have no idea about the personal circumstances of Robin Williams but did note that he died in a separate bedroom to his wife. How many cries for help or signals requesting support would he have made in recent months?

I read a book about depression last year which included a story about a guy who wrote his suicide note before walking to the Golden Gate Bridge to jump off. He wrote that he would not jump if someone smiled at him on his way. Nobody smiled at him .

We live in such a hedonistic and self-centred world where we often cannot see past our own noses and see people that are suffering deeply. Rather than ringing a person, having a coffee with them, listening to them or reaching out as friends we avoid contact, avoid making eye contact with them in passing, because we are uninterested in seeing their pain, and think that their darkness will disappear without any support. After that, when people make the final drastic move of ending their lives we make pathetic patronising comments about "wishing to do more if we only knew?". People know when others are suffering. The cold hard truth is that they ignore it.

Like you say, Gabor, we don't know about the circumstances of Robin Williams - but do have the public information that he died in a separate bedroom than his wife. Very much trying to non-judgemental, one can only question their level of emotional connectedness.
Aug 14th new
(quote) Kathleen-878558 said: Yea, I have been thinking about God's mercy while writing my posts. St. Faustina. The Divine Mercy Chaplet. I often raise my chaplet up for those struggling with bipolar and depression, and for the sick and suffering alcoholics throughout the world. I think I'll tack on those who were or are suicidal, those who have attempted it and thankfully failed, and those who took their own lives.

I am glad you brought this up because I had read it to. I want to share another blog I read.

catholicexchange.com

"The Catechism says:

2282 Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283- We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Suicide is a product of such a deep pain and torment that nobody can understand it. From the Church, you wont find anything in that teaching about going to hell for the act. How should we respond to suicide then? With pity, and prayers. So long as we do this, we have hope and give others who are on the same road a hope to talk to someone."

Aug 14th new
(quote) Laura-56149 said:

I am glad you brought this up because I had read it to. I want to share another blog I read.

http://catholicexchange.com/church-respond-suicide#.U-uGEYBTefV.facebook

"The Catechism says:

2282 Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283- We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Suicide is a product of such a deep pain and torment that nobody can understand it. From the Church, you wont find anything in that teaching about going to hell for the act. How should we respond to suicide then? With pity, and prayers. So long as we do this, we have hope and give others who are on the same road a hope to talk to someone."

Sorry, I was referring to your original post, Kathleen:)
Aug 14th new
(quote) Gabor-19025 said:

This was an interesting article about the man:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/robin-williams-considered-christ-but-he-was-never-set-free-says-ch...

:( The link is no longer available.
Aug 14th new
(quote) Sean-693950 said: Of course any Catholic ought to agree that God allows us to draw closer to God through suffering, and that to presume on God's mercy is just that, presumption. But I see you are falling right into the same trap as our blogger friend, indicating, or rather indicating that one might indicate that mentally ill individuals who develop suicidal ideation have failed spiritually and are suffering the consequences of some personal sin. This is a case of pointing someone's hypothetical finger instead of one's own finger. You don't know "the vast majority" or what they suffer or how they go about it and would do well to get around to "only God knows" before laying down the law about "there may be some cases."
Sean, To whom are you addressing your post?
Aug 14th new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said: I reject the notion that suicide is a "choice" as so described. A person who is in the midst of a severe depression with active suicidal ideation needs to be hospitalized. Intense feelings of despair and hopelessness coupled with constricted thought processes equate with an incapability of reasoning and judgement along with inability to make rational choices, consequently - a danger to themselves. It is because of this newer psychological understanding that the term "committed" suicide is outdated; "death by suicide" more accurately reflects.

Yes, Carol. There are several other terms being used besides committed suicide.

Died by suicide

Suicided

Took their own life

Completed suicide, although some say this is redundant.

Died by the suicide act.

Aug 14th new
(quote) Laura-56149 said:

I am glad you brought this up because I had read it to. I want to share another blog I read.

http://catholicexchange.com/church-respond-suicide#.U-uGEYBTefV.facebook

"The Catechism says:

2282 Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283- We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Suicide is a product of such a deep pain and torment that nobody can understand it. From the Church, you wont find anything in that teaching about going to hell for the act. How should we respond to suicide then? With pity, and prayers. So long as we do this, we have hope and give others who are on the same road a hope to talk to someone."

Laura, Thanks for your post. My father took his own life 30+ years ago and I always learn some nuance when I read other people's writings. Your post made me look more closely at the CCC. These are the entries I found, some the same as in that blog entry:

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

And then there are the entries about mortal sin and culpability:

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, eternal fire.617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. (393)

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to Gods law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and Gods forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christs kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

1864 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

I think the bottom line is that none of us know what the state of a person's mind and soul is upon their death, whether it be suicide or old age. Only God knows. We are encouraged to pray for all of them. Hope is a cornerstone to our Catholic Faith.

Aug 14th new
(quote) Kathleen-878558 said: Sean, To whom are you addressing your post?

That was to Jerry.

Aug 14th new
(quote) Sean-693950 said:

That was to Jerry.

Thanks.
Aug 14th new
There were many accounts of Robin Williams undergoing treatment for substance abuse and depression. Even with the many pharmacological treatments, psychotherapy, and yes, even ECT, (shock therapy) some depression is refractory, that is, untreatable. My former husband is a psychiatrist, and when we started dating I was surprised to hear that ECT is still used, though now it is very controlled and is done in the operating room with anesthesia. A seizure needs to be induced for the therapy to be successful. It is used at times when the patient is in acute danger of hurting themselves or others, and medication's effects would take too long in this crisis period. I don't think it is possible for non-depressed people to understand the depths of illness those who suffer with it face. If his death brings depression to the forefront, if only for a short time, and someone is helped his death has a silver lining. Prayers to those suffering. rosary
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