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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Aug 14th 2014 new
(quote) Kathleen-878558 said:

Laura, Thanks for your post. My father took his own life 30+ years ago and I always learn some nuance when I read other people's writings. Your post made me look more closely at the CCC. These are the entries I found, some the same as in that blog entry:

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

And then there are the entries about mortal sin and culpability:

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, eternal fire.617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. (393)

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to Gods law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and Gods forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christs kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

1864 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

I think the bottom line is that none of us know what the state of a person's mind and soul is upon their death, whether it be suicide or old age. Only God knows. We are encouraged to pray for all of them. Hope is a cornerstone to our Catholic Faith.

hug Kathleen, I am so sorry you suffered losing your father in that way. I believe in God's Mercy and His intimate knowledge of our hearts.
Aug 14th 2014 new
When one lives a pagan lifestyle as most celebrities like Robin William's do. It easily understandable that they might think suicide is the answer to their problems or in other words taking the easy way out. Blaming depression is an excuse that is used by the living to try to rationalize that the victim is now in a better place in order to make themselves feel better about the situation.
Aug 14th 2014 new
(quote) Laura-56149 said: Kathleen, I am so sorry you suffered losing your father in that way. I believe in God's Mercy and His intimate knowledge of our hearts.

Thanks Laura. It was pretty painful for years - until I found the Faith. I am a revert of 17 years, and I have to say Catholicism brought me peace and understanding that just did not exist before then, and that is even with the knowledge that my father may be in Hell due to suicide. God is good. Hope. Hope. Hope.

If my father is in Hell, my prayers for him will not be wasted. God will redirect them to someone else who needs healing or mercy. So nothing is wasted. rose


Aug 14th 2014 new
Depression is an illness. I think it a sad indictment on his marriage and the ineffectiveness of his wife to support him through it. In reverse for any husband also.

It would be a cruel God that condemned him over his failure to cope with life's stresses & his recent diagnosis of Parkinson's.
Aug 14th 2014 new

A few people mentioned the fat that Robin Williams was in a different bedroom from his wife. I haven't seen anything giving the reason for that. Has anyone else? I imagine it is something that will come up at the second Press Conference in a couple weeks, but maybe not.

I know husbands and wives who sleep in separate bedrooms for a variety of reasons. One snores, one has frightening nightmares, one has medical problems that interfere with sleep, etc. I don't think we can attribute Robin's situation to a strained relationship with his wife, necessarily. Unless it's been stated somewhere and I missed it.

Aug 15th 2014 new

Here is the original blog post by Matt Walsh. It is certainly worth the read. It's like going to the actual movie in town instead of reading the review about it.

Robin Williams didn't die from a disease, he died from his choice - themattwalshblog.com

And then there is his follow up post - Depression isn't a choice, but suicide is: my detailed response to the critics - themattwalshblog.com

One of the things I'm picking up on with posts in FB and in blogs, etc., is confusion about the sin and the sinner. Hate the sin; love the sinner is the way to go. I think what Matt is saying is that suicide is a sin, and I would agree. It's the murder of oneself. It's the taking of a life and that is always wrong, just like stealing money from your mother's wallet is. The important aspect that seems to be missing is culpability, which is an important part of all of our confessions. Like with all sin, the behavior and the action are wrong and against God's will, but the person's culpability (extent of responsibility for what they did) varies with each scenario and each person - and only God knows what went on in a person's mind and heart - and only He can do all the discerning and the final judgment. Only we can do the praying for those people's souls, even long after the person is dead, because God is eternity and He accounts for all things from all time. My Dad suicided more than 30 years ago, but do you think God cares? No. If I say prayers for him now, they will have merit in God's process.

I say all this with the caveat that I know I don't know it all, and I could be wrong about any aspect of what I wrote. That doesn't mean I won't challenge what you say, but it does mean I may not challenge it at all. So please chime in if you feel moved to do so. God Bless. +

Aug 15th 2014 new

I goofed on the link to: Depression isn't a choice, but suicide is: my detailed response to the critics. The link above is to page 2. Here's the link to the beginning of the post.

themattwalshblog.com

Aug 15th 2014 new
(quote) Kathleen-878558 said:

I goofed on the link to: Depression isn't a choice, but suicide is: my detailed response to the critics. The link above is to page 2. Here's the link to the beginning of the post.

http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/08/13/depression-isnt-choice-suicide-response-critics/

Wow, Kathleen, he wrote a powerful response. I still disagree with his conceptualization of suicide being a choice - but respect his right to have that opinion. I am dismayed by the incivility in the bulk of responses he reports he has received. He well states: "We live in a culture where rational discussion has become nearly impossible." On, that observation, I totally agree.
Aug 15th 2014 new
(quote) Kathleen-878558 said:

A few people mentioned the fat that Robin Williams was in a different bedroom from his wife. I haven't seen anything giving the reason for that. Has anyone else? I imagine it is something that will come up at the second Press Conference in a couple weeks, but maybe not.

I know husbands and wives who sleep in separate bedrooms for a variety of reasons. One snores, one has frightening nightmares, one has medical problems that interfere with sleep, etc. I don't think we can attribute Robin's situation to a strained relationship with his wife, necessarily. Unless it's been stated somewhere and I missed it.

I was one of the people that noted that Robin Williams was in a different bedroom than his wife, Kathleen. My thinking was more along the lines of the: "What ifs?" - had he not been alone. That is, I take it that his wife was not aware of his active suicidal thinking/intention/plans. tombstone
Aug 15th 2014 new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said: Wow, Kathleen, he wrote a powerful response. I still disagree with his conceptualization of suicide being a choice - but respect his right to have that opinion. I am dismayed by the incivility in the bulk of responses he reports he has received. He well states: "We live in a culture where rational discussion has become nearly impossible." On, that observation, I totally agree.
You are correct, Decorum and civility are archaic concepts in today's society.
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