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February 11th, 2013 - Karen-728821 said:

no

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November 19th, 2012 - Jim-886565 said:

In fact it IS automatic excommunication to vote for a pro abortion candidate at the national level if there is another alternative who is pro-life.

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October 21st, 2012 - Bette-909502 said:

All the priests who molest young girls need to be excummunicated first!

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October 1st, 2012 - Tim-388058 said:

For the first time, I'm thinking no. The abortion issue will not go away no matter who is elected. I think the solution to the issue lies elsewhere, not politics. In this land of individual rights, I don't think Roe v Wade will ever be reversed. There are other issues that are very important and could be more influenced by who's in office. That said, I don't think I could EVER vote for a 'pro-choice' candidate. Especially not when they go out of their way to make it an issue by promoting their view in their campaigns.

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September 12th, 2012 - Wendy-560795 said:

ABSOLUTELY, without question !

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May 16th, 2012 - Monica-858368 said:

Yes they should. But in today's society, that will not happen

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January 7th, 2012 - Frank-797076 said:

We've become so wishy-washy as Catholic humans that we have a hard time saying it's wrong to kill a baby, no matter where it resides. We'd have no difficulty in telling Hitler he was wrong. Why are we afraid to defend the most defenseless, who count on us to help them. God works through His people. Complacency is a killer in this case.

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October 15th, 2011 - Jackie-693927 said:

Keith, taxation, necessity of war, trade policies,and government handout programs are policies set based on the opinion/decisions of lawmakers. Social issues are, indeed, important concerns. However, murder, including that of an unborn fetus, is an inherent evil, a most serious violation against the law of God.

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September 27th, 2011 - Andrew-766945 said:

I'm mixed on this. Clearly, if there is a pro-life candidate available, one should vote for him or her since the sanctity of life trumps all and the unborn are most innocent among us so they take precedence over all other considerations.

However, if you are put in a situation where both candidates are pro-infanticide, then it really comes down to determining who the lesser of the two evils are. I really am not sure on this scenario. On one side maybe it's just better to abstain. After all, choosing a lesser evil is STILL choosing evil. I might consider this situation to be more akin to a sinful act, though whether it's venial or mortal, I'm not sure.

I do believe that a person who knowingly votes against a pro-life candidate and knows Church Teaching should be excommunicated. If a person was somehow ignorant of the matter, they should be informed so as not to repeat the mistake, but not excommunicated.

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July 7th, 2011 - Keith-588549 said:

And I'm honestly appalled that people are still falling for that canard of a pro-life candidate. What is pro-life about lying to wage a war on a country that did not attack or threaten us, to kill, displace, or disrupt millions of lives? What is pro-life about setting the tax rates for the millionaires so low that the tax burden is shifted onto the middle class? What is pro-life about allowing Medicare that the elderly and disabled rely on to be eviscerated by rapacious drug companies who got their toadies in the Republican-held Congress to slip in a provision forbidding Medicare from using its buying power to negotiate for lower prices like the VA does? What's pro-life about allowing cheap imports decimate our manufacturing base through lower tariffs forcing parents to take multiple service sector jobs leaving children at home alone? What's pro-life about allowing marriages to crack under the strain of the primary breadwinner being unable to find work and exhausting his unemployment benefits? What is pro-life about waging two wars that drained the federal treasury in giveaways to the military-industrial complex and cutting social programs saying that the country can't afford them? But the lucky monied elite don't want us mentioning those issues. No, they'd rather us fight about saving the life of a fetus in the womb than fight for formula for a baby because the wealthy might be asked to chip an insignificant portion of their amassed wealth.

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March 16th, 2011 - Shoshana-700126 said:

NO. If you really believe in the ethic of life, then you accept life as a continuum from "womb to tomb". How is a candidate who supports abortion rights any more offensive than one who supports the death penalty? The life of the unborn child is just as sacred as that of the felon on death row. Can't have it both ways...

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January 25th, 2011 - Pat-554286 said:

Yes I would you cant just look at one part of a candidate and not any other. I believe you have to look at the whole pitcher and try to pick the person that will do the most good overall. Most pro life candidates are also pro death penalty are we not also suppose be against this as well. Besides we had a pro life president and congress a few years ago and they didnt even try to stop abortion. We need to put more time and effort into stopping unwanted pregnancies and less time relying on any politician to stop abortion.

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October 1st, 2010 - Keith-588549 said:

How about supporting a candidate who sent this country to war based on a lie resulting in the death of thousands? I daresay that there are many in our Catholic community in the who are guilty of that. It's hard to believe that some dioceses in this country proclaimed it a sin to vote for the guy in 2004 who didn't do that.

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April 11th, 2008 - Gerald-283546 said:

This morning's reading produced two more quotes in support of Catholics working hard to let their Faith influence the State:

"The apostolate in the social milieu, that is, the effort to infuse a Christian spirit into the mentality, customs, laws and structures of the community in which one lives, is so much the duty and responsibiity of the laity that it can never be performed properly by others." (Apostolicum Actuositatem, The Decree on the Apostolate of the Laity, #13, from Vatican II)

"Moreover, let the laity also by their combined efforts remedy the customs and conditions of the world, if they are an inducement to sin, so that they all may be conformed to the norms of justice and may favor the practice of virtue rather than hinder it. By so doing they will imbue culture and human activity with genuine moral values... Let them...remember that in every temporal affair they mut be guided by Christian conscience, since even in secular business there is no human activity which can be withdrawn from God's dominion... But that ominous doctrine which attempts to build a society with no regard whatver for religion, and which attacks and destroys the religious liberty of it ctizens, is rightly to be rejected." (From Lumen Gentium, The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, #36, Vatican II)

So much for separation of church and state, a concept to be rejected by Catholics who take their Faith seriously. State religion, no, but religious influence of the State, Yes!

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April 10th, 2008 - Gerald-283546 said:

I believe that Stephanie is correct: there is no law in the US declaring a "separation of church and state." The First Amendment guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. However, it also says Congress cannot create a state religion, such as the Church of England. Our Founding Fathers wishes to escape the 350 years of sectarian violence that had plagued Europe from the Protestant Revolt up until our founding.

She is also correct that even if there were such a law it wouldn't stop us from policing our own or trying to influence culture.

Apostolicum Actuositatem, The Decree on the Appostolate of the Laity from Vatican II, states:

"Christ's redemptive work, while essentially concerned with the salvation of men, includes also the renewal of the temporal order...

"In fulfilling this mission of the Church, the Christian laity exercise their apostolate both in the Church and in the world, in both the spiritual and the temporal orders." AA #5

"The laity must take up the renewal of the temporal order as their own special obligation... The temporal order must be renewed in such a way that, without detriment to its own proper laws, it may be brought into conformity with the higher principles of the Christian life..." AA #7

So we are to influence, change, reform and perfect the temporal (secular) order, being the leven of society and the salt of the earth. Voting correctly is part of that. Catholics used to say, "Redeem the Day!"

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March 27th, 2008 - Gerald-283546 said:

There are many good postings here. I especially appreciate the comments by Doreen, Paul and Jeffrey.

Abortion is the most serious moral issue we face today. However, excommunication is a punishment that separates the Catholic from the Sacraments, so the action that provokes it must be clear. Having an abortion or materially assisting in one, by Church law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, automatically excommunicates one, latae sententiae (that is without any formal proceedings required). That is nothing new. The action involved is clear. Anyone working at Planned Parenthood should realize this fact. Even driving someone to an abortion clinic is materially assisting this crime against the child, motherhood and God.

But, “supporting a candidate” is not as clear an action as doing an abortion. There could be many reasons, albeit wrongheaded, for supporting a candidate who happens to be pro-abortion. Is it wrong? Yes. Is it a sin? Well, that depends on the motivation and the way the person balances his or her motives. Is it grounds to separate a person from the Sacraments? Pretty murky. Was everyone who voted for Hitler guilty of mortal sin? I just don’t know, but doubt it. Many were. Maybe some, at least initially, didn’t believe what was going on was real. Maybe others were more focused on the day to day issues affecting their families and just didn’t think much about Jews and Catholics having a “hard time.” They were certainly negligent and perhaps selfish, but should they have been excommunicated: separated from the sacraments? Probably not. Better to have them in Church listening to a fiery homily and receiving grace to unstiffen their necks.

Of course that presupposes priests who will preach on the topic. As in Nazi Germany, there are few priests in America with the courage to preach on the hot moral issues of the day: abortion, homosexual behavior, or birth control. Why are they afraid? Will the bishops castrate them? Will the collection suffer? Do they disagree with the Church? This mystifies me. Is this what it was like in the Germany of the 1930s? We hear about love, love, love and sing “Voice of God” songs like we are already deities, but never any talk about the reasons the family is breaking apart: abortion, birth control, and homosexuality.

I think that excommunication for political matters was usually reserved for people who did scandal, that is, they lead others astray. For example, Queen Elizabeth breaking up the Church, declaring herself head of it in England, confiscating its property, and making being Catholic illegal. She richly deserved excommunication!

A better question might be, "Should Pro-choice politicians who call themselves Catholic be excommunicated?" There it would be easy to give a resounding, “Yes.” As public figures, they are leading others astray and therefore giving scandal: a stumbling block to salvation for the public.

What about Mercy? Even an excommunicant who repents and seeks sacramental confession can be and will be accepted back into the Church. It is repentance and a firm amendment to change that is the requirement for re-admission. Jesus always had mercy for those who repented. I believe he would publicly attack pro-choice leaders today. But the mother who committed an abortion and repented of it would be told to go and sin no more. Only those who have never sinned would be allowed to throw the first stone.

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March 26th, 2008 - John-304395 said:

To all those who have equated the Death Penalty and War as elements equal in importance to Abortion when considering political candidates it is obvious that most have not even made a cursory examination of the Catechism which concedes the necessity of Just War in very special circumstances and the Death Penalty in the most extreme circumstance.I challenge all of you to find anywhere in the Catechism that condones Abortion at all. As I have said before if you are opposed to War and the Death Penalty but not abortion you are a hypocrite...Abortion is universally condemned by the Catholic Church and is the greatest slaughter of totally defenseless human life in history!!!!

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March 25th, 2008 - De-315276 said:

In this day and age, there are precious few prolife candidates that we are able to support.

For me the question then becomes who is best for our country and while I believe that this issue is very important, it is not the end all and be all for whom I should vote. There are many issues that need to be dealt with and practically speaking, do we really think Roe v Wade can be overturned considering how controversial it is for the country and considering that we have people in both parties both for and against abortion?

Tunnel vision is not a viable option for me when we look at who will be running the country for the next 4 years. At this point, and I am extremely tired of this, we seem to have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

When, oh when, will we have candidates that stand up and not make us promises that they are unable to keep or have no intention of keeping in the first place! Yes, I'm extremely frustrated but I refuse to throw my vote away and I will continue to do my civic duty.

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March 15th, 2008 - John-304395 said:

Saya...If your candidate doesnt support life from conception to birth,what makes you think they will support anyone elses needs after they have your misguided vote? Democrats are excellent at the old bait and switch;they sell themselves to you as one thing to get your vote then become someone totally different after they have used you.

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March 11th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

D.J.-You mean you don't have a hidden agenda and are able to think for yourself.Excellent!Glad to meet you.

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March 10th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

D.J- Does your last sentence include John McCain?

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February 27th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

That would delight alot of people on this website."Let's Roll"

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February 26th, 2008 - Paul-183066 said:

Leo, If we do that with Obama or Hillary in it, God may destroy it with a lightning bolt. >:-)

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February 26th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Let's do our "Million Man March." Who knows if we walk around the White House 7 times hearts might melt.

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February 26th, 2008 - Paul-183066 said:

Jeff,

Men are called to be leaders and high priests of their households. The responsibility is on our gender as I believe men should exhibit two qualities which are endowed by the power of the Holy Spirit which brings Christ-likeness to every believer. They are toughness and tenderness in balance with one another. These attributes are powerful assets that bring about mascaline maturity,uncompromising standards of excellence and God is able to maximize all the gifts he has given us to be effective men, fathers, husbands and leaders. A majority of men in our society have become wimps. What is needed by most believers today is repentance or radical change which is getting real with God where we really experience the true life changing power of Christ in our lives so that others will see His transcendent glory in our lives. What we see today in Christianity is this described from Paul in his 2nd letter to Timothy Chapter 3. Herein is the current state of man and why abortion and irresponsibility is so rampant in our current society. This is tough stuff from a tough man of God but the truth. These things need to be preached in their entirety throughout all of Christendom and we may see a change for the better. This is truth that transcends political correctness a self-righteous attitude of man today which I believe God holds in contempt as emphasized in this powerful prophetic letter from Saint Paul:

1You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. 2For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them! 6For among them are those who make their way into households and captivate silly women, overwhelmed by their sins and swayed by all kinds of desires, 7who are always being instructed and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these people, of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith, also oppose the truth. 9But they will not make much progress, because, as in the case of those two men,* their folly will become plain to everyone.

10Now you have observed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11my persecutions, and my suffering the things that happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra. What persecutions I endured! Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12Indeed, all who want to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 13But wicked people and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, 15and how from childhood you have known the sacred writings that are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is inspired by God and is* useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.

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February 26th, 2008 - Paul-183066 said:

Jeff,

The Bible gets even more explicit about the pro-life issues especially in the Old-Testament of which many parts are still relevant where they are not changed by the New Testament. We as men also have to behave as men's men after God's heart and not put women in the position to have an abortion. Women also have to learn to exercise self-control and be responsible too. The problem with our society today is it complete lack of responsibility as it is always easier to blame others for their failures. There is no excuse for taking innocent unborn human life.

The waging of a just war against evil tyranical aggressors and using force to deal with dangerous criminals is about the only justification the Church makes on the taking of life. These things are regretable but necessary to prevent evil from running totally amok.

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February 26th, 2008 - Paul-183066 said:

Jeff,Very interesting and well thought out analysis on the election.

You wrote:Seriously, can you see the lesson in this story? Support whoever you want now, but when we get down to the wire, we had better all swallow our pride and vote for whoever can defeat Satan…or whoever else happens to be running against life.

I would also like to add from experience when we fail to act on God's commands He will not bless us but correct us. That goes for individuals as well as nations. Jesus said "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and everything shall be added unto you." and "Righteousness exalteth a nation but sin is a reproach to any people." These principles are clear and vote for the pro-abortion candidate may very well bring a cursed presidency where nothing can be delivered on and all goes wrong. This nation is very blessed and may lose that if its people callously continue to murder the innocent. I think we are feeling a little heat now for our current inaction on this. God is just, not a respecter of persons, and will met out what he deems fit. He has done it throughout history as we have seen many nations rise to greatness and then sink into mediocrity. Do we want that to happen to America? Many people have a false sense of security and think this cannot happen. But many people didn't think 9/11 would happen either.

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February 25th, 2008 - John-116134 said:

No, the church has good laws for what causes excommunication. I think having an abortion automatically excommunicates you. So does any mortal sin, i guess.

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February 25th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

How about a march on Washington in conjunction with one month of not paying taxes?

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February 24th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Kathleen - I don't condone abortions and I,m sorry for leaving you with that impression.And Jeffery,it's true,I do have trouble articulating.Thank you for your Christian latitude.And I'll say you are fighting as best you can.I'll guess there are many "pro-abortion candidates who are sickened by the act and would never consider it for themselves.The problem is apathy. Where is or was the outrage? A couple of people in black robes foisting this on us.

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February 24th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Where are you,Stephanie?

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February 24th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Touche,Patricia! Just because a politician can throw out a pro-life bone doesn't mean they can't be immoral. I'm a gambler, and I'll bet heads rolled on death row in Texas when George was Governor.For the most part they speak with forked tongue.It just goes with the territory.It boils down to what I've been hearing my whole life. Vote for the lesser of the two evils.

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February 24th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Imagine,Jeffery,a man telling a woman he loves her and will take care of her just to have sex with her. It happens!The girl gets pregnant and the man is gone.Now she is consigned to a life of shame,economic hardship,loss of education,freedom,future romance,whatever.It takes a special woman to keep that baby at this point. God bless her. But this is what I meant about a man bringing the woman to the point to abort.And yes they should not have engaged in premarital sex.But,it happens.I know you don't assign blame. God does. And in the bible I've read,He has put the sins of one into the account of another.Maybe into the account of that "loving man."

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February 24th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Alot of a woman's problems are foisted upon her because of a man. And she suffers.Men are responsible for bringing women to the decision to abort. I have male and female friends who suffer over that decision.From mild depression to suicidal to believing God will never forgive them.Thank God we have a Church that will embrace hurting souls and a Redeemer whose mercy covers those sins.I certainly know I rely on that mercy.

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February 24th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Jeanette-Thank You!Beautiful song,Great video.

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February 24th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

wow

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February 23rd, 2008 - Richard-143340 said:

I was surprised at the results.

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February 23rd, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Donald- I think Jesus would rank politicians somewhere between Pharisees and Saduccees.I don't think he would vote.

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February 23rd, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

When assigning blame for this travesty where does the voter lie? After the president,the senate,the judges,the attornys,the doctors,the women,the pro-choice organizations,or before them all! Just curious.

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February 22nd, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Jeannette- I read the quotes. She doesn't pull any punches.A little Lady with alot of heart!

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February 22nd, 2008 - Paul-183066 said:

Barack Hussein Obama is the most pro-abortion candidate ever to run for POTUS. He will not receive my vote for that and many other things.

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February 21st, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Instead of waiting of for a politician (who we all know is usually full of b.s.) we should pool our money together and pay off a couple Supremes!

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February 21st, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Tom-It's been years but as I remember this is how it was done. A man named Paul Bell started a tax revolt movement. So Paul helped me become a "Belanco Brother"-a man of the cloth.And using separation of church and state I claimed "exempt status" and didn't pay taxes for two years.But later I got a job with the state and the IRS socked it to me with amount owed plus penalties and interest.It's not for the squeemish!

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February 21st, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

Tom-It's been years but as I remember this is how it was done. A man named Paul Bell started a tax revolt movement. So Paul helped me become a "Belanco Brother"-a man of the cloth.And using separation of church and state I claimed "exempt status" and didn't pay taxes for two years.But later I got a job with the state and the IRS socked it to me with amount owed plus penalties and interest.It's not for the squeemish!

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February 20th, 2008 - John-304395 said:

With regard to abortion there is no gray area.If you are Catholic you cannot publicly support or announce to others that you have voted for a Pro-Choice candidate.If your only support of such a candidate is in the privacy of the voting booth then that is a matter between the voter and God.

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February 19th, 2008 - Leo-311933 said:

How about declaring it a mortal sin to pay taxes since that money is used to provide abortions. I quit paying taxes for two years. Got spanked pretty good by the IRS.I'm ready to do it again.How about you?

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